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Inbreeding in the Outlands   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #103 of 132 |
RE: [zardozthemovie] Re: What Frayn wanted

Unlike Ellison's computer in "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", Tabernacle
is quite benign. Tabernacle has been programmed to preserve the Eternals at
all costs. Tabernacle is not torturing the Eternals, they are their own
worst enemy. They hate each other because of their long confinement
together. They are bored because they absolutley lack vision and purpose
(entirely the fault of the ancient designers of the Vortex). With their
technology they have nothing to fear from the outside any more. The
apocalypse is long past and they don't need to huddle ina shelter from
ravening masses of people. They could easily begin expanding the Vortex,
reclaiming the world, taming the pockets of Brutals. . .but they do not.
This is one of the brilliant messages in the film.
Boorman was making a statement about the emptiness of elitism. Those with
the wealth and power often don't deserve it and often do little with it. Of
course I'm generalizing, there many great philanthropists out there
today...but think of Boorman traveling to Hollywood and seeing all these
rich and powerful people completely absorbed in vanity/sensuality
(immortality), mystical movements (second-level meditation), and the very
hollow and ultimatley trivial entertainment business (The constant reviewing
and cataloguing of Tabernacle's information).
Tabernacle actually allows itself to be disabled by Zed because it seems to
sense that Zed is capable to do the one thing it cannot do itself: end the
meaningless misery of the Eternals.
As for Frayne, I see him not as a great liberator, but really as merely a
troublemaker. He's the rich child so spoiled and bored only recklesslness
and agitation can amuse him. He begins breeding superior beings among the
Brutals to agitate.



>From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
>Reply-To: zardozthemovie@yahoogroups.com
>To: zardozthemovie@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [zardozthemovie] Re: What Frayn wanted
>Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 00:23:45 -0000
>
>Compare the Tabernacle in "ZARDOZ" to the computer that is the enemy
>of the leftovers of Mankind in Harlan Ellison's story "I HAVE NO
>MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM". The computer(s) didn't create themselves;
>MAN created them, and their creations enslaved them... virtually
>annihilating them as a "lesser" type of being. In "ZARDOZ" the
>Tabernacle keeps the Eternals in a state of stasis, really, except
>for those whom they punish (the Renegades, doomed to senility) and
>those who are subject to the 'disease' of Apathy. Ultimately, the
>penalties are for Individuality as opposed to the Group-Mind 'ideal'
>that is enforced via the Second Level Meditation and all that.
>Imagine being forced to mind-meld with a group of people you've come
>to despise on the subconscious level... trying to keep your gut-level
>hatreds buried, but failing as they make their way into your
>conscious mind -- and then the all-knowing Tabernacle (by the consent
>of the Group) punishes you for thoughts you can't help having,
>hatreds you can't help feeling. Like that poor schmuck George Seden,
>who tries feebly to defend himself from the charges against him, then
>allows himself a moment of defiance... all, ultimately, doing him no
>good whatsoever.
>
>Trapped in the hellish pseudo-utopia that is the Vortex, they need an
>outside influence -- a "noble savage" -- to rescue them. Because of
>their superiority complex, they feel they have the right to "control"
>the outlands... and they delegate the job to Arthur Frayn, the only
>Eternal who WANTED to deal with it. While out on his own (and
>ostensibly not ENTIRELY under the supervision of the Tabernacle), he
>concocts the 'Zardoz' religion as part of an attempt to breed the
>Bringer of Death who could ultimately fulfill their deep-seated
>deathwish. As the creator of a religion -- a FALSE religion (as I
>think all religions are, and as I suspect Boorman probably believed
>when he came up with the story) -- Frayn did what every other major
>religion has done: he instilled within that religion's followers an
>intrinsic hatred of their own nature. The "penis-is-evil" mantra
>supports this horrific notion that human nature is essentially
>corrupt, that Man is "filth" which "poisons the Earth". That Man is
>deserving of death. As a result, the only way to put that religion
>into practise is to separate out an "elite" who would then be used to
>wage genocide on the rest -- at least, killing the males, so that
>they could have the females to themselves (only the Exterminators
>could breed).
>
>How is it that the Eternals (i.e. Frayn, working on their behalf)
>could do that to the so-called "Brutals"? The Eternals, deep down in
>their subconscious minds, HATE their own fellow Eternals, and have
>had to suppress it into their darkest depths of their subconscious
>minds -- creating an "Id monster" like in "FORBIDDEN PLANET" where
>there hadn't been one before. They hate each other... they hate
>themselves... so it's no wonder that they have at least as low an
>opinion (if not lower) regarding the Brutals. They have no pity for
>them (or, with few exceptions, most of them don't). The suffering of
>the Brutals has become mere "entertainment" to them.
>
>Boorman's message -- especially if you listen to the commentary on
>the DVD -- is that Religion is a sham, and that it is a force which
>is ultimately destructive to the human race. In time, the "noble
>savage" -- the TRUE human -- will rebel against the inhuman force
>that preaches about Man being a creature of "sin" who deserves to be
>punished by a "god" -- paid the "wages" of sin: Death. When Zed
>destroys the Tabernacle from within -- finding the "flaw in the
>crystal" -- it is the first step towards Man's triumph against the
>anti-human institution of Religion. Zed is a sort of "antichrist" in
>that he brings the gift of Death to people who cannot otherwise die,
>the inverse paradigm of Christ bringing the gift of Eternal Life to
>people who otherwise cannot live forever. The Eternals, after only a
>couple centuries of "eternal" life, can't STAND living anymore; it
>isn't in their nature -- in Man's nature -- to live forever.
>Spiritually, we NEED to complete the cycle of Life, and Death is the
>completion of it. We aren't cut out for eternal life, and those who
>are afraid of Death, of dying, and who think that they'd like to live
>forever, are probably fooling themselves. When you've read every book
>there is to read... seen every movie there is to see... had every
>sort of conversation there is to have with everybody else who -- like
>you -- is living forever... eventually, you will run out of the will
>to live.
>
>And Zed help you if you are FORCED to keep on living an unbearable
>life!
>
>Patrick
>_______________________________________________________________
>
>--- In zardozthemovie@yahoogroups.com, "Tiziano" <apecalypsenow@...>
>wrote:
> >
> > I think Frayn didn't give a shit about evolution. He KNEW -
> > or "SENSED" - tha only a super-human being could have helped the
> > ETERNALS to escape from their endless state.
> > The main problem was the TABERNACLE. Frayn was conscious that EVEN
> > an Eternal wasn't able to defeat the Tabernacle. Eternals were
> > puppets in the "almost-blind" and "automatic" head of the
> > Tabernacle, so to speak.
> >
> > So, he chose to "generate" a super-human being (or "to design him
>by
> > inbreeding", if you want) because only having access to the full
> > potential of human being could have led to the annihilation of the
> > Tabernacle.
> >
> > He wasn't an evolutionary, a scientist. That's why the drawnings in
> > his house were so POOR... I mean "elementary". He was more an
>artist
> > and a self-teached science man. His biggest skill was intuition.
> >
> > (and Zed saw even more than that behind his actions... GOD?)
> >
> >
> > T.C.
> >
> > --- In zardozthemovie@yahoogroups.com, Worov@ wrote:
> > >
> > > <<<Frayne's method . . .was a personal project and not the norm
> > across the
> > > vortex system>>>
> > >
> > > Absolutely agree with that one which is, as you demonstrate with
> > your
> > > quotes, precisely what's communicated by the film. Though I think
> > you'll agree we
> > > may extrapolate (thanks to the film's purely visual narrative and
> > the story's
> > > various implications, not to mention what we learn of Arthur's
> > individual
> > > personality) that he also had something extra in mind. I don't
> > know if it's the
> > > precise bloodbath that ends the film. But remember he begins it
>by
> > saying, " .
> > > . . I long for death, but death is no longer possible." He also
> > wistfully
> > > berates Zed, after being shot and floating out of the head, in
> > something like
> > > this wise: "I could have shown you."
> > >
> > > So Arthur's up to something more than just a simple breeding
> > scheme, I'd say.
> > >
> >
>
>

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Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:43 am

zardoz0012000
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Message #103 of 132 |
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It seems like ZED COULD BE the SPAWN of an EXTERMINATOR and a BRUTAL WOMAN, kinda of. I think that's how Arthur Frayn basically operated his schedule of...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Jan 23, 2006
5:26 pm

Let's begin here. What do you think about it? ... BRUTAL ... into ... from...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 20, 2006
11:11 am

<<<Does this make sense to you?>>> It sounds a pretty reasonable approximation of what Frayn must have had in mind, and what probably went on. Though never...
Worov@...
roontoh
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Mar 21, 2006
4:26 am

Scroll down, MUTANTS! it's also a good bet ... eliminate any ... (i.e. those ... objectives), if ... I think that they were principally RAISED in the culture...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 21, 2006
4:55 pm

... If one takes the whole idea of evolutionary pressure applied by predation, there's a sort of backdoor eugenics going on through Frayn's implementation of...
jameskosub
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Mar 30, 2006
2:25 am

... otherwise vulnerable ... generations of this, you'd ... capable Brutals. RIGHT! You have a great insight....
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 30, 2006
11:54 am

<<<Frayn was scared about malformations>>> Maybe, but I wonder. Natural selection, seems to me, would have handled the worst of those for him. The brutals'...
Worov@...
roontoh
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Mar 22, 2006
5:44 am

... handled the ... BRUTAL! It ... own. Agreed, natural selection seems to be spontaneous, and we're talking about a world ravaged by a bacteriological war....
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 22, 2006
5:51 pm

Hey wait a minuet can I throw in somethin? If you have these master killing machines (Exterminators) for 200 years doing nothing but killing any Brutal that...
dsunlin
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Mar 27, 2006
10:37 pm

... Of course you can! That's *OUR* group. ... Exactly. They kill only certain types of Brutals, the ones that Arthur Frayn suggests them to kill... it's a...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 29, 2006
5:32 pm

... This is an excellent question, as I think when watching the film that while this particular Vortex is broken and killed, there are other Vortices out...
jameskosub
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Mar 30, 2006
2:30 am

... it's replicated in each one, or ... his PARTICULAR Vortex, his ... That rises ONE MORE question, the most important one in my agenda! Is Frayn supposed to...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 30, 2006
12:01 pm

... He'd really have to be, since we never actually see any Exterminator WOMEN at any point. Not that they don't exist -- if Zardoz/Frayn was really serious...
jameskosub
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Mar 30, 2006
2:21 am

The "Penis is evil" chant is just a way like another to keep the Exterminators' sexual hormones "quiet" for a while. Overpopulation was the very first REASON...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Mar 30, 2006
11:52 am

It has always been my impression that Frayn'es breeding program was an abberration--his own personal experiment that later became his obsession: namely to...
a. Laid
zardoz0012000
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Apr 5, 2006
2:36 am

<<<Frayne's method . . .was a personal project and not the norm across the vortex system>>> Absolutely agree with that one which is, as you demonstrate with...
Worov@...
roontoh
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Apr 5, 2006
5:07 am

I think Frayn didn't give a shit about evolution. He KNEW - or "SENSED" - tha only a super-human being could have helped the ETERNALS to escape from their...
Tiziano
tiz_the_exte...
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Apr 5, 2006
1:03 pm

<<<He wasn't an evolutionary, a scientist.>>> True, but then neither are most dog, cat, and horse breeders who nonetheless fully understand and exploit the...
Worov@...
roontoh
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Apr 6, 2006
5:02 am

Compare the Tabernacle in "ZARDOZ" to the computer that is the enemy of the leftovers of Mankind in Harlan Ellison's story "I HAVE NO MOUTH AND I MUST SCREAM"....
patrickmichaeltilton
patrickmicha...
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Feb 8, 2007
12:23 am

Unlike Ellison's computer in "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", Tabernacle is quite benign. Tabernacle has been programmed to preserve the Eternals at all...
easygoin 1
zardoz0012000
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Feb 12, 2007
7:44 am
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