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Tengwar for Chinese: a few more considerations ;)   Message List  
Reply Message #4408 of 7233 |
Chinese tehtar mode


CONSONANTS

t: tinco
d: ando
s: thúle
c: extended tinco
z: extended ando
n: númen

p: parma
b: umbar
f: formen
m: malta
w: vala (1)

sh: aha
ch: extended calma
zh: extended anga
r: anna

k: quesse
g: ungwe
x: hwesta
q: extended quesse
j: extended ungwe
y: vilya (2)

l: lambe
h: hyarmen


NOTES TO THE CONSONANTS

(1): vala is only used when the <w> is the first sound of a syllable.
If it follows a consonant, then the <w> is represented by a left-curl
above that consonant. If it follows a vowel, then it's written with an
úre that bears that preceding vowel.

(2): vilya is only used when the <y> is the first sound of a syllable.
If it follows a consonant, then the <y> is represented by two dots
below that consonant. If it follows a vowel, then it's written with a
yanta that bears that preceding vowel.


SIMPLE VOWELS

The vowels are placed on the preceding consonant sign. If there's no
preceding consonant sign, then they're placed on a short carrier. For
exceptions see the notes to the consonants.

a: three dots
e: acute
i: single dot
o: right curl
u: left curl


COMPLEX VOWELS AND Ü

All complex vowels and ü are written by combinations of the following
kind:

y/w/yw + vowel + y/w

Like this:

ua = w + a
uo = w + o
uai = w + a + y
ao = a + w
iu = i + w (y + o + w?)
ou = o + w
iao = y + a + w

ia = y + a
ie = y + e
io = y + o
iao = y + a + w
ai = a + y
ei = e + y
ui = u + y (w + e + y?)
uai = w + a + y

ü = y + u
üe = yw + e
üa = yw + a


TONES

I suggest to use the same tone signs as in the pinyin romanizations
(like Dave 'Hísilómë' does). However, I suggest to place them below
the same sign where the vowel tehta is.

---------------------------
j. 'mach' wust
http://machhezan.tripod.com
---------------------------







Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:25 pm

j_mach_wust
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Message #4408 of 7233 |
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A few more considerations occurred to me. When talking about affricates, I should have mentioned that j(i) and q(i) are in some respects special. First lets...
Dave
hisilome
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Nov 10, 2004
5:33 am

I don't know Chinese, so I can't help you much. ... The tengwar have two extra to avoid the confusion with diphthongs: yanta and úre, and since you're already...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 10, 2004
2:57 pm

... Neither do I, but I know some things *about* Mandarin phonology, so I have taken the liberty to upload my suggestion for a transcription. I admit that my...
Benct Philip Jonsson
melroch
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Nov 11, 2004
10:09 am

... [What exactly does that mean?] ... [Who says that? How would they be related? I've never read about this, or heard a Chinese person say this :)] ... next...
hisilome
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Nov 11, 2004
6:14 pm

... I meant the medial -u- in e.g. _guo_. -- /BP 8^) -- Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant! (Tacitus)...
Benct Philip Jonsson
melroch
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Nov 12, 2004
9:57 am

j_mach_wust wrote: [First, thanks for your suggestions! I've incorporated some of them into my fine-tuned sound chart (see post), particularly I have found a...
Dave
hisilome
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Nov 11, 2004
6:43 pm

The following proposals are based on http://www.wfu.edu/~moran/Cathay_Cafe/IPA_NPA_4.htm and on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin . ... (I suppose you meant...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 17, 2004
1:12 am

j_mach_wust wrote: [Thanks a lot for your suggestions! I'm still trying to figure out how to incorporate some of them into the mode... I got the impression...
Dave
hisilome
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Nov 17, 2004
8:09 am

... What made you think that? I'm very hesitating about úre, since it's not attested at all, but that's all. ... There's an important difference between the...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 17, 2004
10:54 am

... whereas the Chinese mode places the vowel tehtar on ... , and there's no need to break with this in a Chinese mode). ... [So following -e would be spelled...
Dave
hisilome
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Nov 17, 2004
1:39 pm

CONSONANTS t: tinco d: ando s: thúle c: extended tinco z: extended ando n: númen p: parma b: umbar f: formen m: malta w: vala (1) sh: aha ch: extended calma ...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 17, 2004
3:25 pm

I'm sorry, I hit the wrong key and posted before I could complete the subject. I wanted it to be "Chinese tengwar mode with Tolkienian vowel representation"...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 17, 2004
3:28 pm

Well, mellon, I bow my head to you :). This looks pretty good to me...haven't carefully studied all the details yet, but I think as far as consistency and...
hisilome
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Nov 18, 2004
3:30 am

... Sure, nwalme, I forgot this one, thanks! ... No, wherever a tengwa carrying a modified left-curl should carry a vowel tehta as well, it does, e.g. in DTS...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 18, 2004
9:19 am

This is a corrected version of the Chinese mode I proposed yesterday. Thanks to Dave 'Hísilómë' for the corrections! CONSONANTS t: tinco d: ando s: thúle ...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 18, 2004
6:00 pm

Here's one more clarification of my poor English (thanks again to Dave 'Hísilómë') in the section on tones. CONSONANTS t: tinco d: ando s: thúle c:...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 19, 2004
7:28 pm

... [Well, that was really just a misunderstanding then :). I also saw you removed <üa> from the complex vowels list. I agree now that when writing Mandarin...
hisilome
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Nov 21, 2004
5:06 am

... All of your samples match perfectly with the suggestion I've outlined! ... I'm sure you wouldn't, and this makes me feel safer! ... j. 'mach' wust ...
j_mach_wust
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Nov 21, 2004
9:30 pm

... <...> ... syllable. ... syllable. ... a ... <...> ... following ... [I have long wondered about one little "problem". When using Tengwar to write Chinese,...
hisilome
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Feb 17, 2006
4:53 pm

... Well it is. The palatal initials developed historically out of the velars. In fact they are still in complementary distribution. See...
Benct Philip Jonsson
melroch
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Nov 17, 2004
8:29 am

... [I never denied this phonological development. What I do doubt is that an awful lot of average native speakers are aware of it, and actually consider these...
hisilome
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Nov 17, 2004
9:19 am

... Sure, but noone less than YR Chao claimed that many speakers are aware, or at least have a hunch about, the complementary distribution of velars and...
Benct Philip Jonsson
melroch
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Nov 17, 2004
9:01 pm

... [Right, that's why I pointed out that in many parts of China, even the Mandarin retroflexes are pronounced lazily, as dental/alveolars. If you don't roll...
hisilome
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Nov 18, 2004
1:21 am
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