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#262 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2006 3:37 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: IPDTA Yahoo Group
andrearobins...
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Oh, yeah, Karen, I forgot to tell you that you have to join IPDTA.  It's $25 -- I think it's worth it. You get to be around "great minds," as it were.  You'll certainly get another point of view.
 
:)
 
Andrea


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...> wrote:


Norma Jeanne Laurette <2puppypower@rogers.com> wrote:
From: "Norma Jeanne Laurette" <2puppypower@rogers.com>
To: <andys_child@yahoo.com>
Subject: IPDTA Yahoo Group
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:07:37 -0400

Hi,
 
I received your request to join the IPDTA email group.  Unfortunately, this group is exclusive to IPDTA members only.  For more information about becoming a member visit our website at www.ipdta.org.  Have a terrific day!
 
Norma Jeanne Laurette
Puppy Power Training & Behaviour Therapy
Canine Communication Studies Inc. Career Courses
International Positive Dog Training Association Chair
www.dogtrainingcareers.com
www.ipdta.org
HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE!!!



 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 

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#261 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:46 am
Subject: Re: Re: Aggressive behaviour
andrearobins...
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Karen, good luck! You've got my full support in getting your "pack" back to balance.
 
xoxo
Andrea


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...> wrote:
Andrea, I have decided to use Cesar's methods with AllicksBlindPUp. I have not up til now, as when they are separated there is no issue. She is delightful and silly. But life is in turmoil. So we started last night, when training is in gear, no lovey dove, silliness. Firm commands, 'barking' on my part so she knows no nonsense will be tolerated.  I have her FULL attention when I am in 'gear'.  So I'll go out this weekend and get the 'collar' (I hate this, but I have no choice) and will begin her desensitization, or if that doesn't work, then major corrections... I'll keep you all up to date.  I posted privately to Andrea on this, but Andrea, you can certainly share with the group...
WISH ME LUCK ALL YALL :)


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 

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#260 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:31 pm
Subject: OT OT OT Fwd: Online Dog Expo!
andrearobins...
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FYI for dog lovers...
Andrea

Jeannie Thomason <jeane44@...> wrote:
From: "Jeannie Thomason" <jeane44@...>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Subject: Online Dog Expo!
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:26:13 -0700

Hi Friends,
 
Please come to the online dog expo I am a part of organizing.  If you can not  attend,   
please, would you share the press release below with all your dog fancier friends?  
 
If any of you would like flyers that can be printed out and posted offline,  please let me know.  
 
Thank you for time and hope to see you at the Dog Expo!
 
Immediate Release:
 
Online expos offer international exposure, contact and ease of access without the expense and hassle of travel and lodging hassle
 
Worldwide Exposure for your Dog-Centric Business in Online Dog Expo
 
With the cost of petroleum rising to critical mass, and the expense of running a business rising to match, there had to be a better way for dog businesses and aficionados to connect. No sooner than we can pose a problem in the 21st century the solution is often immediately before us and this is no exception. The 1st Annual Online Dog Expo is taking shape to bridge the gap over international waters with only a computer and internet access.
 
For most dog owners, fanciers, professionals, welfare advocates, breeders, and dog lovers worldwide typically have to travel to a destination to come together, especially for any worldwide events. Event Organizers, Kim Bloomer and Jeannie Thomason, hosts of the online radio show, Animal Talk Naturally! (http://www.animaltalknaturally.com ) knew this would be a wonderful venue to bring dog aficionados together in one place without the expense, travel and hassle typically associated with offline dog expos. 
 
"The only thing missing with an online event ARE the dogs but your own dogs can be lying comfortably by your feet as they are nestled in your bunny slippers while you sip a cup of java in your pj’s while you participate," states Bloomer. "
 
"I've been to a lot of dog shows as a natural rearing breeder of Boston Terriers, so I know how expensive the travel can be not to mention the time and hassle often involved. The Online Dog Expo will allow all of us to get together to share our expertise, educate and network with nothing more than a computer, internet connection and speakers" commented Thomason.
 
Both Bloomer and Thomason stated that if someone wants to participate verbally the only additional equipment needed will be a microphone otherwise text chat is also available. "With the incredible line up of speakers we have, the virtual dog show, giveaways, and other events this will be a nice educational and fun event for dog lovers to enjoy during the cooler season. We even have online exhibitor booths in a 3-D format that makes this very Jetsonish!" exclaimed Bloomer.

The Online Dog Expo will take place September 22-24, 2006 beginning at 7PM EST on the 22th. Attendance is only $12.95 for the entire weekend and the entire expo will be available on CD after the event. For information on how to register, exhibit, or sponsor this event please contact event publicist Tammy Munson via  email tmunson@... or call 940-782-7340.
 
###
 
 
Have A Pawsitively Grrrreat Day!
 
Jeannie Thomason
Natural Dog Care Educator, Nutrition Consultant, Pet Aromatherapy Practitioner
 
"The great aim of education is not knowledge, but action"
Herbert Spencer

 


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#259 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:05 pm
Subject: Fwd: IPDTA Yahoo Group
andys_child
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Norma Jeanne Laurette <2puppypower@...> wrote:
From: "Norma Jeanne Laurette" <2puppypower@...>
To: <andys_child@...>
Subject: IPDTA Yahoo Group
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:07:37 -0400

Hi,
 
I received your request to join the IPDTA email group.  Unfortunately, this group is exclusive to IPDTA members only.  For more information about becoming a member visit our website at www.ipdta.org.  Have a terrific day!
 
Norma Jeanne Laurette
Puppy Power Training & Behaviour Therapy
Canine Communication Studies Inc. Career Courses
International Positive Dog Training Association Chair
www.dogtrainingcareers.com
www.ipdta.org
HAPPINESS IS A CHOICE!!!



 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

#258 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:00 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Aggressive behaviour
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Andrea, your reply is so involved and detailed, I am saving to a text file so I can study it. I think Cesar's work points out one deficience of dog 'owners' in that they get bad behaviour from a pup but they have not set limits, they have not set their alpha. I agree consistency is KEY, as well as control.  So while I have never needed to use his techniques with my houseful, I now do. AllicksBlindPup has had basic obedience, she is extremely intelligent and very high energy. She races through life at 100 mph, but listens to me when I get the 'voice'.  I have an 'application' in to the group THANK YOU, Christy my cousin who is living here and working with both Allicks & Gabriel (in fact she is the one who touch trained Gabriel) applied and was denied... ?
We work with shelter dogs in socializing and play, as well as basic obedience on that odd Saturday when we don't have a milloin other things to do, like tomorrow we are setting up our Petsmart Rescue & Education Booth for LWAR-C.
I have read that if a person backs out of the alpha issue, it will be resolved by itself. In my house, there is no issue with Gabriel. He is just oblivious to her and not even near her when she attacks. He is no challenge, and she certainly cannot see him, being blind. She may know that he is deaf and blind, but he stays clear of her. Last night, she came within 3 inches of his behind, Christy had his collar, while I had hers. And the low rumblel which precedes an all out attack came from her throat. STRONG correction with collar and off to the bedroom where she lives. She will have to go back downstairs which I HATE, because she so loves people. But she cannot continue to live in a bedroom.


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


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#257 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:35 am
Subject: Re: Aggressive behaviour
andys_child
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Andrea, I have decided to use Cesar's methods with AllicksBlindPUp. I have not up til now, as when they are separated there is no issue. She is delightful and silly. But life is in turmoil. So we started last night, when training is in gear, no lovey dove, silliness. Firm commands, 'barking' on my part so she knows no nonsense will be tolerated.  I have her FULL attention when I am in 'gear'.  So I'll go out this weekend and get the 'collar' (I hate this, but I have no choice) and will begin her desensitization, or if that doesn't work, then major corrections... I'll keep you all up to date.  I posted privately to Andrea on this, but Andrea, you can certainly share with the group...
WISH ME LUCK ALL YALL :)


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


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#256 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:23 am
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Aggressive behaviour
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Karen, you poor thing.  You say:  "I am stronger than Allicks and I can keep her under physical control, but I cannot control two dogs simultaneously."
 
I hear ya, Karen.    The first thing I would like you to do is to join this group:
 
 
This is the International Positive Dog Training Association and it's based out of Canada.  It doesn't seem to be such a high volume group that you can't get any attention.  And I find them to be really helpful.  They just had a thread all this week about dominance, and I think it's really important that you read it.  There has also been some traffic about Cesar Millan, but I haven't had a chance to read it.
 
When I was reading Dog Language: An Encyclopedia of Canine Behavior by Roger Abrantes et al, I learned that canine leadership is a lot more complicated than we once thought it was.  We humans tend to think of leadership as "You're the boss," and so we do whatever the boss says.  In the world of the pack, the "boss" doesn't always get his way.  Sometimes a lower-ranking dog gets the meat. The boss generally won't take it away if that happens.  Once he's got it, he's got it.  The system is much more fluid than we think of it being.  The leader is not always the absolute in charge.  At different times, different dogs will take different roles. 
 
The reason that clicker training works so well is that nobody has to force herself on the pack as the absolute leader at all times.  You teach the dog a series of "tricks" -- to the dog, they are all "tricks" and there is no "obedience" -- that substitute for behaviors you don't like.  For example, you teach a dog to ring a bell to go out to pee and that substitutes for the self-rewarding behavior of peeing in the house.  In order to get a dog to substitute a behavior that you like for a self-rewarding behavior that gives the dog immediate relief, you've got to make it worth the dog's while.  But when the dog realizes that he's got a pretty good chance of getting something that he likes for making these substitutions, he does it without any regrets and he does it voluntarily.
 
The problems with the "dominance" model are two-fold, in my opinion:  (1) we really don't understand dominance as it's practiced in the pack, and some writers believe that dogs in a household don't even need a leader!! After all, the food arrives every day.  There are no predators trying to eat you.  The "leader" role in the household doesn't compare much at all to the role in the wild, and the dogs probably know it.  (2)  Just like you say, you can only control one dog at a time.  I can throw a dog on his back and do a very good alpha roll, but what do I do when I've got two or three dogs acting out or fighting each other?  (Right now I've got eight, plus Kay the Kat!) 
 
I have tried it both ways.  I've gone back to the corrective type training after getting so many dogs and getting frustrated with the slow, incremental, monumentally-planned clicker-training approach.  I started yelling at the dogs, trying to force them to comply, jerking on the leash, etc.  I used a Citronella collar on Bailey and he just learned to bark so hard that he burned out the battery, used up all the Citronella, etc.  I was exhausted, cranky, and feeling beat up myself. Then I started rewarding Bailey for the "quiet."  BINGO!  Within one afternoon, he was really starting to get it, and I was really amazed that he picked it up so fast. He's very food motivated, so he was willing to use self-discipline to get what he wanted. 
 
See, I think that self-discipline is a tool that a person has to get what he/she wants in life.  Apparently dogs have self-discipline too.  If they see that foregoing the immediate gratification of barking every time I leave the house will probably result in getting a treat later, they will forego the immediate gratification.  It might be astonishing to us, but perhaps all learning is based on this.  We learn, through trial and error, what works to get a certain result.  If we like the result, we repeat the behavior again and again, as long as it works.  If the result starts changing to something we don't like, it won't take long until we change our behavior, looking for a result that we like.
 
I think that we have confused "discipline" with "punishment."  My friend told me the other day, "Dogs crave discipline."  Well, what they crave is a positive outcome.  They have discipline already.
 
I now believe that dogs don't understand the word "should."  All the "leadership vibes" in the world are not going to convince a dog that he should respect you because he "should."  Yes, people respond to that.  We've been taught that we "should" treat certain people with deference just because we "should."  (But don't forget, reinforcement and punishment in relationship to how we treated people were the real teachers, not just somebody telling us how to act.  So maybe we don't even understand the word "should" either, except as a cue to avoid punishment and receive reinforcement.)
 
Every living organism does what it needs to do to please itself.  Dogs don't just want to please you and give you unconditional love.  There are some things you cannot teach a dog -- walking on fire, for example.  If they give you love, it's because they are getting something out of it.  And if I treat somebody well, it's because I'm getting something out of it.  Knowing that, it's silly to waste your time trying to dominate another organism when we have this fantastic brain and can think of ways to get the organism to WANT to do what we want, whether or not that organism perceives us as "dominant."
 
I remember the first time I saw a dog trainer on TV teach a dog to sit by holding and moving a piece of food over the dog's nose until the dog just sat down while watching the food!  I thought to myself, "Now, that's just plain CHEATING!!  Doesn't she know she's supposed to tighten the leash and put pressure on the butt until the dog has to sit!?!"
 
Well, I think that positive dog training does seem like cheating when you first get into it.  Then you feel a huge rush because it seems so easy to clicker-train everything.  But then, you may hit a wall as I did, especially if you were raised in a family that utilized punishment and basically nothing but punishment to teach you everything.  To me, a person who is used to being bashed over the head a lot (literally or figuratively), making a training plan and sticking to it seemed like water torture!  It just takes so much thought, planning, and repetition!  Can't you just smack the dog upside the head and be done with it!?! 
 
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.  If you try and try and try to be the "dominant," i.e., bossy pack leader, and you are, by nature, a very nice person who just wants everybody to get along, you will ultimately get tired of the constant posturing and break down and be yourself.  And when that happens, your dog might either attack you or be afraid of you.  And if you see fear in the eyes of your dog, you will never forgive yourself for trying to be the "leader" so relentlessly. 
 
I think that if you are really committed to keeping all of them in the house, you'll really have to use more sophisticated methods than what Cesar offers.  Or, at least, more sophisticated than he explains.
 
Cesar apparently likes to tell people that you've got to have the right "vibes" or something to control your dog.  Most of the trainers I know and some I've read think that while Cesar has popularized dog training, he's also put it back 20 years in many ways.  One way is his assertion that you have to somehow put forth the feeling that you are the leader.  Clicker trainers think that he is definitely doing something to let the dogs know that he is a leader, but that these things are not mysterious and they are not a "feeling."  These things are quantifiable, demonstrable, and tangible.  In other words, does he tell you, "Breathe through your nose and stand tall," or "Speak in a low register"?  Or does he just say, "Let the dog know that you are the leader,"  which is really a vague thing to say.  (And by the way, this is my only argument with Jan Fennell also.)  You see, whatever Cesar is doing that speaks to dogs on a body language level, he doesn't spend a lot of time explaining what that is.  And that's what we consumers really need to know.  Cesar truly does get great results, but he doesn't tell you exactly how to replicate what he does.  I know some clicker trainers who are planning to watch his whole series and document every little thing he does with his body and break the "mystery" wide open.
 
Cesar sometimes uses harsh methods that get bad results.  True, most dogs will just put up with all the awful methods in the world without complaining, but some will fight back, some will shut down, and some will just plain die. 
 
If you are already having the results you're having with all the infighting in the pack, you really need to stop and look at all the assumptions you have about dogs, about pack behavior, about what you're supposed to do to assert dominance, etc.  For example, is this the first time you are rading that the pack leader doesn't always get his or her way?  I really believe that most people don't know that, and therefore go off on a tangent fed by "traditional" wisdom.
 
When I was a student at UCSB, I read a book on how to train retrievers.  Of course, it was written in the 60's, but it was one of the only dog training books they had in the library.  The book literally taught you exacly how to beat your dog and for how long, and told you that if you didn't get good results after a certain number of beatings, the dog was useless for retrieval work and you should dump him off on the first unsuspecting person and get another dog.  Now, this writer was really revered in his day, and had trained all kinds of champions.  So dogs will put up with a lot of crap without complaint, and some will even be champions.  That doesn't mean that the bad techniques made them champions, but just means that the dog put up with them.  The guy did have some other good tips in there, but think how far we've come from traditional wisdom.
 
We have some amazing researchers out in the field as I'm writing this.  Please don't get hung up on Cesar's pop dog training techniques.  He's got some good stuff, but not all of it is very good.  Try opening up your mind to some new techniques, techniques that take the burden of perfection off of you.  We always think that our leaders are perfect, and that's why we have to always do what they say, no matter what.  I'd love to see you be able to relax in your own home, and I'd love to see you living in a safer place. 
 
Think of this example:  You tell your dog to do something, but then you change your mind because it's really not that important.  But then, your dog doesn't do it.  Now, you have to force your dog to do something that you really don't care if he does, all because you're afraid that you will lose face in his eyes!  This paradigm of dominant/underling is very hard on you in addition to being hard on the dog!  Wouldn't it be nicer to just have a relaxed relationship with your dog, based on trust rather then dominance?  I know that you love your dogs and I'm sure that they trust you, but adding the anxiety about who's dominant and who isn't dominant doesn't really help anything.  The truth is that you control all the resources, so dominance isn't even an issue.  You don't have to "try" to be dominant.  You just have to get your dogs doing what you want them to do and reinforce those good habits until the bad habits are just ghosts.
 
So please try to tap into some people who do positive dog training and let us help you.  Join the IPDTA and keep doing what you're doing with managing the household to avoid wars.  Then start re-training yourself to do training another way; not for the world, not to save Lethal Whites, but just to make your own household more bearable.  I promise that you won't be sorry.
 
And, please, by all means, keep me posted.
 
Karen, can you send me your phone number and address off list? I have some materials to send you and I would also like to talk to you on the phone to get you started, as you have a long process ahead of you and probably need some relief right away.  Email can be so slow.
 
And thanks for letting the Clicker-Training-Video group know what's going on with you.
 
:)
 
Andrea
 


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom  wrote:
Andrea, Allicks attacks Gabriel. He doesn't fight back, he just screams.  Never had blood, because never goes on long enough. Allicks is just a delightful baby with me.  But when she is in the zone, I don't even exist.  AmbrrNanaDog and St.JudeMiracleDog mauled AllicksBlindPup when a guy tried to break into my house. They were at the door with Allicks between them and they couldn't get the guy, so it was misplaced aggression, but until I found that out, Ambrr was in quarantine and on amitryptelene.  I was SO relieved to find out someone tried to break in. Ambrr will go after Allicks when she tears into Gabriel. But I keep them separate 24/7 now. Allicks lives downstairs with Jude and Ambrr upstairs with Gabriel.  I think Allicks is soooo alpha that as she cannot beat Jude or Ambrr (they are big lab mixes and she is a petite aussie) she takes out her alpha on Gabriel.  She is just delightful with me, with Ambrr, with my cousin, Chris, who I am copying on this.
I have not had to use Cesar's methods, as my dogs do what I tell them (those that can hear) but I am seriously thinking about it for Allicks. I firmly believe these are last resort methods that WORK. Well, his first point which I firmly believe in is that you must establish your alpha.  And let the dog be a dog in the pack, and not the boss of the house.
So altho I hate the idea, I may get a choke collar for Allicks. Allicks completed basic obedience, never got her agility, Gabriel never got his basic, Andy died the day their classes were to begin. Gabriel is now touch-trained though, and quite eager to 'please' (anything for a nibble of cheese) he is a delightful, silly baby boy who is nothing but love wrapped in fur.  He is brilliant by the way :)
I am stronger than Allicks and I can keep her under physical control, but I cannot control two dogs simultaneously :( 
Any ideas?
I am copying Chris so she can take a look at this as well.
THANK YOU ANDREA!


Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...> wrote:
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Subject: Re: [clicker-training-video] Aggressive behaviour
To: clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com

Dog aggression is a serious, serious issue.  Up until now, I have recommended the book Click to Calm.  But there is new research being conducted at the University of North Texas that has led to another treatment.
 
The treatment takes several hours, but the learning curve is pretty amazing.  I just loaded a pretty detailed description that I wrote for the IPDTA (International Positive Dog Training Association).
 
The tough news is that dog-on-dog aggression between dogs living in the same household is apparently the hardest to treat.  The researcher that gave the seminar that I attended told us that "aggression belongs to the environment."  In other words, there is something in the environment that is reinforcing the aggression and if an aggressive dog is re-homed, he or she may never show any signs of aggression again.
 
That WOULD be somewhat comforting to me because of my aggressive foster dog, Paco, but I am afraid to adopt him out because how do I know that he will never run into another dog again that ticks him off as much as my Bailey does?  Paco is basically impossible to contain when he sees Bailey -- climbs out of exercise pens, breaks chain link fence latches, etc.  It's absolutely terrifying and quite dangerous for any human to be around.  If giving him away was the magic cure, I would do it in a heartbeat, but is there any guarantee?  I don't think so.
 
In the case of Allicks and Gabriel, I'm guessing that you just keep them separated all the time.  And I wouldn't do any more alpha rolls on her.  That could be very dangerous for you, and even if you've gotten away with it before, it could cost you your face someday.  And I'm not just saying that.  I was able to separate Bailey and Paco one time, but the next time I just got mauled.  So I wouldn't try the alpha roll.
 
By the way, they have learned that while it is true that the top dog would do alpha rolls on other dogs, it was only when the top dog was ready to kill.  So receiving an alpha roll would really be quite terrifying to a dog and they might not want to give up that easily.  So watch out.
 
So none of this really helps you.
 
Does Gabriel fight back?  What makes you think that Allicks would succeed in actually killing him?  Or is it just multiple wounds on both of them that send both of them to the vet?
 
While I was being repeatedly bitten, I could feel all the strength sapping out of me.  At that point, I let go of both dogs, looked around the room, noticed Lassie was in the room with us (Oh, My God!!!), grabbed Lassie, and left.  I called 911 and asked them to send Animal Control over to separate the dogs.  I was sure that if they didn't get there within a minute or so, one of the dogs would be dead and it would probably be Bailey.  But it must have taken them at least 10 minutes to get there and both dogs were alive when they left the house to go to impound.
 
I have read before that while dog fights seem incrediby violent, they are often not as violent as we think they are.  Both dogs were impounded for 10 days and were not allowed to go to the vet.  Both had some wear and tear, but both survived.  I was actually quite shocked.  There had been blood all over the place, but most of it was apparently mine.
 
I'm not suggesting that you let them go at it and find out.  But be aware that any damage done during a dog fight could be most damaging to you. 
 
On the other hand, I don't doubt that one of them could try to kill the other if given the chance.  You know them best.
 
From some of the other emails I've read from you, I think you're using Cesar Millan's techniques.  I think you're using some form of correction, whether it's leash corrections, alpha rolls, etc.  Can you please fill us in on what your training philosophy is?  What do you usually do during a scuffle, how do you teach the dogs, how are the dogs arranged in the house, etc.?  Have you ever consulted an expert, and what did they say?  I know your dogs win all kinds of obedience prizes.  But are you saying that Allicks and Gabriel have never been to basic obedience classes?  It's hard to advise without being there to witness what is going on.
 
I am so sorry you are having these problems.  Seems to me that Allicks acted up about a year ago and attacked AmberNanaDog ... correct?
 
Please let us know more about what's going on and let me see if I can be of any help.
 
Sorry if I'm rambling!
 
Best,
 
Andrea
 


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom wrote:
Aggression training... Andrea HI!  I have serious problemls with AllicksBlindPup.  She wants to kill and when she gets into the zone, holding her, yelling no, she is oblivious. I have even alpha rolled her in the middle of an attack. She just wanted to continue the attack. She is so alpha, and if I let her anywhere near GabrielDeafBlindPup now she will kill him. They wre playing to gether a few months ago, and then it started randomly and now it is constantly. She doesn't mess with the lab mixes, as she is subordinate to them and they will put her in her place.
So I am VERY intersted in this. Everyone tells me I have to get rid of one or the other. As you know, THAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.  Would not have given up a child, won't even consider the thought without a gag in my throat.
So FILL US IN when you get a chance!
She is otherwise, adorable, brilliant, a ray of sunshine, a wigglebutt of delight. Folks fall in love with her and today I spoke with a trainer about agility again. She had tested high for agility and her first class was the day Andy died, so she obviously never got her classes.  GabrielDeafBlindPup was to start his basic obedience that same day, so no one has gone to school... But he has learned sit, down, up by touch.
 Around Gabriel lately, AllicksBlindPup is a killer. I don't know what triggered it before, but she would wake from a dead sleep and attack him across the room. So now it is constant.
 


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 

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Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 
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#255 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:49 pm
Subject: OT OT OT SCREENING BULLETIN: "The Dogwalker"
andrearobins...
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Here's a movie you might want to see and ask your local theaters to get!
 
Andrea

Mark Stolaroff <nobudgetfilmschool@...> wrote:
Dear No Budget Filmmakers (and dog lovers!):

Opening this weekend at LA's Laemmle Music Hall is a very special no-budget feature, "The Dogwalker".  Directed by Filmmaker's Alliance co-founder and LA Indie Film Champion Jacques Thelemaque, and starring Thelemaque's wife and FA co-founder Diane Gaidry, "The Dogwalker" embodies the quality that most of you will need to get your features out into the world: Perseverance.  Several years in the making and several more in the releasing, this production is an expert lesson in never giving up, listening to your heart, and waiting for the right moment to strike.

The story of how a misanthrope and a whole host of dogs guide a young, battered woman towards salvation is near-and-dear to the Thelemaques', who had been dogwalkers in real life.  After many years developing and workshopping the script, then another couple shooting and editing, then another couple working the festivals, changes in technology and in theatrical distribution finally made it possible for Thelemaque to release the film himself (through Mark Cuban's Truly Indie program) and find and aggregate an audience.  Prior to these changes, Thelemaque would have had to settle for what a lot of indie filmmakers settle for, bad deals from distributors who have no way of knowing how to release an honest drama with no stars. And it would have been a crime to have this film sitting around--it is a moving story with fine touches of humor (and brutality) throughout, and an excellent example of what can be pulled off even on a tiny budget.

Come to the Music Hall this weekend to see the film (released digitally) and ask the filmmaker questions afterwards. Or, if you want to support a wonderful non-profit organization with ties to the film's subject matter, go to the screening this Wednesday at the Laemmle Monica benefiting Arts Fighting Cancer (AFC). Tickets for this screening are $15 and all proceeds go to AFC, who helps cancer patients cope with financial difficulties. A reception follows at nearby Ma'kai Lounge.

Flyers for both the benefit screening and the opening are included below, as well as a recent review from the film's San Francisco premier.

"THE DOGWALKER"
Opening August 25th for a limited engagement
Laemmle's Music Hall
9036 Wilshire Blvd.
Beverly Hills, 90211
310-274-6869

For more information, visit their web site:

http://www.thedogwalkerfilm.com/


As I always say, please see this movie in the theater, opening weekend if possible. You will enjoy the theatrical experience and your support of low budget films getting a theatrical release gives all of us a better chance to see our own movies on the big screen.

Best,
Mark

-- 
NO BUDGET FILM SCHOOL
The Principles and Secrets of Micro-Budget Filmmaking Revealed
http://www.nobudgetfilmschool.com/

"THE ART & SCIENCE OF NO BUDGET FILMMAKING"
A Two-Day No-Budget Filmmaking Immersion
October 21 & 22, 2006
Los Angeles, California
 
FREE PRODUCTION SOFTWARE!!!
No Budget Film School has partnered with Axium Entertainment to bring you an incredible offer.  Register for the classes now and receive Axium® Scheduling and Axium® Budgeting software absolutely FREE! (a $400 Value!).
 
Guest speakers scheduled to appear:
- Peter Broderick, President, Paradigm Consulting, considered the leading authority on alternative distribution strategy
- Mike Upton, SVP, 2929 Productions, formerly ran Roger Corman's studio, now head of production for Mark Cuban
- Michael Cioni, Director of Operations, PlasterCITY Digital Post, the tech genius behind Chris Coppola's post house 
 
Additional speakers to be announced.

Visit NO BUDGET FILM SCHOOL to register and for more information:
http://www.nobudgetfilmschool.com/id14.html


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#254 From: clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:57 pm
Subject: New file uploaded to clicker-training-video
clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the clicker-training-video
group.

   File        : /Training Tips/Recap of Kellie Snider dog aggression seminar.txt
   Uploaded by : andrearobinson93210 <andrearobinson93210@...>
   Description : new treatment for aggressive dogs - plain text

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clicker-training-video/files/Training%20Tips/Recap\
%20of%20Kellie%20Snider%20dog%20aggression%20seminar.txt

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

andrearobinson93210 <andrearobinson93210@...>

#253 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: Aggressive behaviour
andrearobins...
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Dog aggression is a serious, serious issue.  Up until now, I have recommended the book Click to Calm.  But there is new research being conducted at the University of North Texas that has led to another treatment.
 
The treatment takes several hours, but the learning curve is pretty amazing.  I just loaded a pretty detailed description that I wrote for the IPDTA (International Positive Dog Training Association).
 
The tough news is that dog-on-dog aggression between dogs living in the same household is apparently the hardest to treat.  The researcher that gave the seminar that I attended told us that "aggression belongs to the environment."  In other words, there is something in the environment that is reinforcing the aggression and if an aggressive dog is re-homed, he or she may never show any signs of aggression again.
 
That WOULD be somewhat comforting to me because of my aggressive foster dog, Paco, but I am afraid to adopt him out because how do I know that he will never run into another dog again that ticks him off as much as my Bailey does?  Paco is basically impossible to contain when he sees Bailey -- climbs out of exercise pens, breaks chain link fence latches, etc.  It's absolutely terrifying and quite dangerous for any human to be around.  If giving him away was the magic cure, I would do it in a heartbeat, but is there any guarantee?  I don't think so.
 
In the case of Allicks and Gabriel, I'm guessing that you just keep them separated all the time.  And I wouldn't do any more alpha rolls on her.  That could be very dangerous for you, and even if you've gotten away with it before, it could cost you your face someday.  And I'm not just saying that.  I was able to separate Bailey and Paco one time, but the next time I just got mauled.  So I wouldn't try the alpha roll.
 
By the way, they have learned that while it is true that the top dog would do alpha rolls on other dogs, it was only when the top dog was ready to kill.  So receiving an alpha roll would really be quite terrifying to a dog and they might not want to give up that easily.  So watch out.
 
So none of this really helps you.
 
Does Gabriel fight back?  What makes you think that Allicks would succeed in actually killing him?  Or is it just multiple wounds on both of them that send both of them to the vet?
 
While I was being repeatedly bitten, I could feel all the strength sapping out of me.  At that point, I let go of both dogs, looked around the room, noticed Lassie was in the room with us (Oh, My God!!!), grabbed Lassie, and left.  I called 911 and asked them to send Animal Control over to separate the dogs.  I was sure that if they didn't get there within a minute or so, one of the dogs would be dead and it would probably be Bailey.  But it must have taken them at least 10 minutes to get there and both dogs were alive when they left the house to go to impound.
 
I have read before that while dog fights seem incrediby violent, they are often not as violent as we think they are.  Both dogs were impounded for 10 days and were not allowed to go to the vet.  Both had some wear and tear, but both survived.  I was actually quite shocked.  There had been blood all over the place, but most of it was apparently mine.
 
I'm not suggesting that you let them go at it and find out.  But be aware that any damage done during a dog fight could be most damaging to you. 
 
On the other hand, I don't doubt that one of them could try to kill the other if given the chance.  You know them best.
 
From some of the other emails I've read from you, I think you're using Cesar Millan's techniques.  I think you're using some form of correction, whether it's leash corrections, alpha rolls, etc.  Can you please fill us in on what your training philosophy is?  What do you usually do during a scuffle, how do you teach the dogs, how are the dogs arranged in the house, etc.?  Have you ever consulted an expert, and what did they say?  I know your dogs win all kinds of obedience prizes.  But are you saying that Allicks and Gabriel have never been to basic obedience classes?  It's hard to advise without being there to witness what is going on.
 
I am so sorry you are having these problems.  Seems to me that Allicks acted up about a year ago and attacked AmberNanaDog ... correct?
 
Please let us know more about what's going on and let me see if I can be of any help.
 
Best,
 
Andrea
 


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...> wrote:
Aggression training... Andrea HI!  I have serious problemls with AllicksBlindPup.  She wants to kill and when she gets into the zone, holding her, yelling no, she is oblivious. I have even alpha rolled her in the middle of an attack. She just wanted to continue the attack. She is so alpha, and if I let her anywhere near GabrielDeafBlindPup now she will kill him. They wre playing to gether a few months ago, and then it started randomly and now it is constantly. She doesn't mess with the lab mixes, as she is subordinate to them and they will put her in her place.
So I am VERY intersted in this. Everyone tells me I have to get rid of one or the other. As you know, THAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.  Would not have given up a child, won't even consider the thought without a gag in my throat.
So FILL US IN when you get a chance!
She is otherwise, adorable, brilliant, a ray of sunshine, a wigglebutt of delight. Folks fall in love with her and today I spoke with a trainer about agility again. She had tested high for agility and her first class was the day Andy died, so she obviously never got her classes.  GabrielDeafBlindPup was to start his basic obedience that same day, so no one has gone to school... But he has learned sit, down, up by touch.
 Around Gabriel lately, AllicksBlindPup is a killer. I don't know what triggered it before, but she would wake from a dead sleep and attack him across the room. So now it is constant.
 


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 

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#252 From: clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:56 pm
Subject: New file uploaded to clicker-training-video
clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the clicker-training-video
group.

   File        : /Training Tips/Recap of Kellie Snider dog aggression seminar.doc
   Uploaded by : andrearobinson93210 <andrearobinson93210@...>
   Description : new treatment for aggressive dogs

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clicker-training-video/files/Training%20Tips/Recap\
%20of%20Kellie%20Snider%20dog%20aggression%20seminar.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

andrearobinson93210 <andrearobinson93210@...>

#251 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:01 pm
Subject: Aggressive behaviour
andys_child
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Aggression training... Andrea HI!  I have serious problemls with AllicksBlindPup.  She wants to kill and when she gets into the zone, holding her, yelling no, she is oblivious. I have even alpha rolled her in the middle of an attack. She just wanted to continue the attack. She is so alpha, and if I let her anywhere near GabrielDeafBlindPup now she will kill him. They wre playing to gether a few months ago, and then it started randomly and now it is constantly. She doesn't mess with the lab mixes, as she is subordinate to them and they will put her in her place.
So I am VERY intersted in this. Everyone tells me I have to get rid of one or the other. As you know, THAT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION.  Would not have given up a child, won't even consider the thought without a gag in my throat.
So FILL US IN when you get a chance!
She is otherwise, adorable, brilliant, a ray of sunshine, a wigglebutt of delight. Folks fall in love with her and today I spoke with a trainer about agility again. She had tested high for agility and her first class was the day Andy died, so she obviously never got her classes.  GabrielDeafBlindPup was to start his basic obedience that same day, so no one has gone to school... But he has learned sit, down, up by touch.
 Around Gabriel lately, AllicksBlindPup is a killer. I don't know what triggered it before, but she would wake from a dead sleep and attack him across the room. So now it is constant.
 


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


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#250 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:52 pm
Subject: Re: Hi Andrea
andrearobins...
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Hi, sweetie. Thanks so much for writing.
 
I have spent the last year fixing up my house for sale -- and I sold it!! Hooray. Then I spent the next couple of months moving -- a huge undertaking, because I'd been in that other house for 12 years and had no time or space to really even go through and do a lot of thinning out before moving. Well, with 5 dogs, a cat, a roommate and her dog, we were pretty crowded down there. (Especially because not all the dogs got along.)
 
I did send away for a "Be a Tree" kit -- it's the materials you need in order to do classroom presentations for young kids and teach bite prevention.  Unfortunately, about a week after I received the kit, a doorknob failed in my house and one of the dogs that doesn't get along with one of the other ones wandered into that dog's room.  Because of a number of other equipment failures I ended up getting somewhat torn up and had to call 911 to come and break up the dogs (and then take me to the hospital!).  I still have those dogs and now I'm up to 8 dogs and a cat (I gave my cat away, but got her back yesterday).
 
Anyway, I went to a two-day seminar about dog aggression shortly after that incident (I had signed up before).  It was absolutely phenomenal and I will post a summary of the seminar that I wrote for the IPDTA (International Positive Dog Training Association).  Anyone who is having aggression problems should look into this.  But it's still very difficult to use on dogs that are aggressive to other dogs in the same home.  It's great for dogs that are aggressive to strangers, whether human or canine.   
 
I haven't had time to do much clicker-training and haven't finished the video.  Things are still in boxes all over the place.  But moving was a huge step and I am still planning on finishing.  I have to apologize to everyone for taking so long.  If anyone wants their investment money back, I am now in a position to pay you back with interest after selling my house.  Thank you for helping me when I didn't know where the next dime was coming from! It helped me get through that last quarter in school.  I've been involved pretty deeply in rescue and fostering ever since.
 
I just heard from a trainer up here that they are looking to hire people to supervise play time at the doggy daycare here, so that would be a nice part-time job for me.  I will be able to purchase the editing equipment and keep on working on the video.
 
My computer connection is EXTREMELY slow, so I hardly ever initiate an email.  I apologize for that, too.  Apparently I am so far out in Madera county that I am too far away from the phone company to get DSL.  Just getting an email to open takes a phenomenally long time. 
 
But I thank you so much for sending an inquiry.  I hope all is well with you and I really hope to have good news for you soon!
 
Best,
 
Andrea
 


lynneverhart1 <lynneverhart1@...> wrote:
Hi Andrea!
Long time, no hear! What is going on with this group, no action!
Is your video all done yet? What else have you been up to? Drop a line
or answer here and let me know how you are!
Lynn



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#249 From: "lynneverhart1" <lynneverhart1@...>
Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:49 am
Subject: Hi Andrea
lynneverhart1
Offline Offline
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Hi Andrea!
Long time, no hear! What is going on with this group, no action!
Is your video all done yet? What else have you been up to? Drop a line
or answer here and let me know how you are!
Lynn

#248 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Fri Jul 7, 2006 4:19 pm
Subject: Fwd: ClickFlicks -- Rabbit Agility :: Dog training videos for download from Karen Pryor Clickertraining
andrearobins...
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Fun footage!

Andrea Bratt Frick <fuzzfarm1@...> wrote:
From: "Andrea Bratt Frick" <fuzzfarm1@...>
To: "Walter Peterson" <walt@...>,
<vhomann@...>,
"Teah Anders" <teah@...>,
"Susan Hopmans" <susan@...>,
"Sara Wall" <swall@...>,
"Rosemary Soares" <6500rs1@...>,
"Peggy" <Peggasus1@...>,
"Norm Hendry" <normhendry@...>,
"Nora DeGaa" <ahhdegaa@...>,
"Natasha Lohmus" <zhuki@...>,
"Naomi Hall" <naomihall@...>,
"Nancy B DeVeronica" <nancyrbd@...>,
"Myriam Holland" <amholland@...>,
"Morrison, Sandy" <sandy.morrison1@...>,
"Michelle Lin" <m_lin@...>,
"Meridaybeth Komar" <iguanacam@...>,
"Margaret Bernal" <roobee1@...>,
"Lynn Adams" <Lynprints@...>,
"Lesley Fagan" <lesley@...>,
<larwitty@...>,
"Kena" <kenakh@...>,
"Kerry Kopp" <kerryk@...>,
"Kim L. Hansz" <Benadv@...>,
"Kellie Snider" <kellie@...>,
"Kay Nicholson" <kay.nicholson@...>,
"Kathy Kuchenbecker" <kathy.kuchenbecker@...>,
"Karen Lee Stevens" <sos@...>,
"Kara Peterson" <karap@...>,
"joyce z" <sbjoycez@...>,
"Jon and Wanda Bratt" <jbratt@...>,
"John Blake" <jblake@...>,
"Jeff Bratt" <jeffsd@...>,
"Jasmina Kent" <vlafam75@...>,
"Heidi Bratt" <hrbratt@...>,
"Andrea Bratt" <fuzzfarm1@...>,
"Andrea Robinson" <andrearobinson93210@...>,
"Bea Pludow" <K9sbehave@...>,
"Debi Kester" <wtn4hvn@...>,
"Denise Swearingen" <neicybun@...>,
<ElanTervs@...>,
"Erik and Mona - Direcway" <erikandmona@...>
Subject: ClickFlicks -- Rabbit Agility :: Dog training videos for download from Karen Pryor Clickertraining
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 00:22:14 -0700

 
 
http://www.clickertraining.tv/product.html?item=FREE-04


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#247 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:06 pm
Subject: Emma needs help
andrearobins...
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Emma is in dire need of rescue and will be PTS before the holiday if no one steps up for her.  http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=6237025
 
Sorry I have been very absent from the groups lately.
 
Have a good 4th if I don't talk to you again.
 
Fondly,
 
Andrea

saveadog <saveadog@...> wrote:
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 21:55:02 -0700
To: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
From: saveadog <saveadog@...>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Pit and Pups

Nope I don't have any open spots for Emma:(
the pound will slaughter for the upcomming holiday so she will be gone if noone can help her

PLease spread the word on Emma
THanks
Nikky:)

Oh, my gosh.  I looked up Emma and she just seems to be such a sweetie.
Andrea

saveadog <saveadog@...> wrote:
I know of another needy pit, looks Boxer Sharpei but they have her as Pit, looks like just had pups and will be put down next week
Will e-mail you a picture of her
or look under
RED BLUFF
Animal control

Emma URGENT
 
 


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#246 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sat May 20, 2006 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Rambo will be our house guest
andrearobins...
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Yup, it was a marking thing all right.  I would not let him use it anymore.  When you're working, you can try letting Gracie sit on your lap or in her bed and letting Rambo sit in his crate.  Then take them both out every hour on the hour and throw the ball for a few minutes.
 
A dog that pees in the house, for whatever reason, whether for relief or for marking, is NOT housebroken in my opinion and needs remedial potty-training.  I would not give him the run of the house anymore or trust him at all until he earns it.
 
An alternative to the crate is to put him on his leash and then slip the handle of the leash through your belt so he is always attached to you on an umbilical cord.  Whenever you get up and move around you'll have to call him and make sure he follows you. But this way, he can't sneak around the house and pee behind the couch.
 
When he pees outside, make sure and click and treat or just make a big deal out of it by praising, throwing a favorite toy, etc.  Too bad you have to babysit him and housebreak him, too.
 
But even if a dog is housebroken in his own home, that doesn't mean that he is housebroken in somebody else's home.  They don't generalize that way.  I think that after they are housebroken in the third or fourth home, they start to get it.
 
Good luck and keep posting!!
 
Andrea


Beth <hrwest2001@...> wrote:
Oh boy! Rambo seemed to be under control to a pretty good degree
although he sure is jealous of Gracie and she of him. I have her bed
by my desk and that is where she sits when I work. I put a bed of
Rambo's there too so that he could have his spot. He is having
nothing to do with his bed. Nope! He wants either Gracie's bed or
Gracie's human's lap. (My friend that is here? Her lap is no good to
him!) So Gracie and Rambo seem to sort of take turns laying in the
bed or laying on my lap while I work. Gracie prefers not to give up
my lap so allows Rambo to sit in her bed. However, last night? He
marked her bed!! I was not too pleased about that! It is a very
special bed. Shobi and Dinki sent it to me when Josephine was sick,
and she spent exactly one afternoon in it, the last afternoon of her
life. Since Gracie came it has been hers. So I washed the bed, but
you know how these things are. The more often that the  bed has to be
washed the faster it will wear out. Silly of me I suppose to be
attached to the bed, but ......... I do hope that Rambo is not going
to start marking all over the house. I take them out a lot for pees
as Gracie was never trained particlarly well so I know that he did
not have to pee and could have held it. He was out an hour or so
earlier. It was definately a marking thing.


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#245 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sat May 20, 2006 7:36 pm
Subject: Re: HI From new Member
andrearobins...
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Sandy, is everything coming along okay?  Is Cooper starting to realize what the clicker is for?
 
Andrea


Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...> wrote:
Welcome!!!
 
What you want to do to get started is to just click at random -- Cooper does't need to be doing anything to "earn" it -- and treat. The treat can be a tidbit, play, a toy, whatever floats his boat.  It's got to be good enough so that he will work to get it. That's the key.  So some people take all their treats and put them on the floor and see which ones their dogs choose first. Their selections may surprise you!
 
Wait until Cooper realizes that the click means something before you do any actual training.  What you're doing is called installing or charging the clicker.  When you click and he turns around and runs to you to get his treat, then the clicker is installed.  Then you can use it to teach.
 
Try that and let us know how it works.  It might take a day or three, but some get it in 15 minutes.  Then I'll make some more suggestions, and others on the list with blind dogs will probably do the same.  :)
 
Andrea

sandy <sandyjm51@...> wrote:
Hello,

I have a blind dog. His name is Cooper , he's 1 1/2 years old, yellow
lab.I understand that he went blind at about 6 months--I adopted him
at 10 months.  We have been through a traditional basic obedience
class. I am interested in clicker training--have friends who are
totally sold on it. Have bought the book and the clicker, but then
couldn't find a clicker class close to me and I was a bit confused
without physically seeing it being done. Are there any tips specific
for blind dogs?

Thanks,
Sandy and Cooper.




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#244 From: "Beth" <hrwest2001@...>
Date: Sat May 20, 2006 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: Rambo will be our house guest
graciemillic...
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Oh boy! Rambo seemed to be under control to a pretty good degree
although he sure is jealous of Gracie and she of him. I have her bed
by my desk and that is where she sits when I work. I put a bed of
Rambo's there too so that he could have his spot. He is having
nothing to do with his bed. Nope! He wants either Gracie's bed or
Gracie's human's lap. (My friend that is here? Her lap is no good to
him!) So Gracie and Rambo seem to sort of take turns laying in the
bed or laying on my lap while I work. Gracie prefers not to give up
my lap so allows Rambo to sit in her bed. However, last night? He
marked her bed!! I was not too pleased about that! It is a very
special bed. Shobi and Dinki sent it to me when Josephine was sick,
and she spent exactly one afternoon in it, the last afternoon of her
life. Since Gracie came it has been hers. So I washed the bed, but
you know how these things are. The more often that the  bed has to be
washed the faster it will wear out. Silly of me I suppose to be
attached to the bed, but ......... I do hope that Rambo is not going
to start marking all over the house. I take them out a lot for pees
as Gracie was never trained particlarly well so I know that he did
not have to pee and could have held it. He was out an hour or so
earlier. It was definately a marking thing.

  --- In clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Robinson
<andrearobinson93210@...> wrote:
>
> Good job, Beth! As far as the mouthing goes, I would suggest a few
high-pitched yelps the way dogs and puppies do when they're hurt.
And turn away and don't play for at least a few seconds.  This is how
puppies teach each other in the whelping box.  It's called bite
inhibition and it's a good reason not to separate the puppies too
young.
>
>   :)
>
>   Andrea
>
>
> Beth <hrwest2001@...> wrote:
>   Well, so far we have been doing ok in getting Rambo to wait for
> everything. Gracie has "asserted" herself a couple of times when
> Rambo wanted to get up on my lap, but by last nigth they were both
on
> my lap with Gracie using his rump as a pillow. But.... there have
> been some really difficult things too. Rambo likes to "mouth" you,
> which I do not let him do. I have been giving him time outs for this
> behaviour, not sure if this is right or not. And he is much worse
> with my friend who is staying with me. He actually nipped her
earlier
> this moring. I have been making a point of both my friend and I
doing
> a little training with him off and on throughout the day. His Mom
> gave us all the instructions on the stuff she is doing with him at
> obedience classes and at home. But he is a very aggressive character
> and on top of that I am sure he does not really know what is going
on
> here too.
>
> Thanks for the ideas, and any others you guys might have will be
> gratefully accepted.
>
> Beth
>
> --- In clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Robinson
> wrote:
> >
> > Very good points, Karen! The key is to reward him for waiting and
> start by making him wait for only very short periods of time and
> building on success.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > Karen Andy's ^i^ mom wrote:
> > Rambo is exhibiting "normal" alpha behaviour. Normal to him,
> abby normal to the rest of your "pack" I don't know his home
> situation, but now is the time to not tolerate. He does NOT get
> first anything. He sits and waits for everyone, including
GracieAcie.
> If he needs to watch you from a crate, that is what it takes. He
> needs to understand that he is submissive to everyone in the house.
> This includes every aspect of every day behaviour. Do not allow him
> to enter a doorway before you. Keep on lead if you must. Do not
allow
> him on your lap, that is Gracie's spot. Do not let him eat anything
> before anyone, and crate if you must. If you are going to make it
> through the next 10 days, you must be firm and not equivocate a
> single time. When he is "good" that is he waits his turn, lavish him
> with praise and whatever he waited for. He will soon find he gets
> Heaven when he waits his turn. You will be doing him a big favor. He
> is confused and thinks he is the boss. Dogs need
> > some check points in their lives, and that includes rules and
> parameters. Dogs in the wild are very punctilious about the ranking
> in their packs. And this carries over big time into the domesticated
> dog. Yes, I watch Cesar and I have learned a lot, but I have been
> reading about pack behaviour for years. Just never watched it
> transform a dog until Cesar got a television program.
> > Rambo will just love the GOOD attention he is getting and I would
> bet his excitable behaviour calms down quite a bit with some firm
> control. Again. Use a lead to bring him into the program.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Karen Anderson
> > Andy's ^i^Mom
> > Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/andyschild/
> > http://www.andrewkeithanderson.tvheaven.com/
> > www.andyschild.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.
Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.
>

#243 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Thu May 18, 2006 11:37 pm
Subject: Re: Rambo will be our house guest
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Good job, Beth! As far as the mouthing goes, I would suggest a few high-pitched yelps the way dogs and puppies do when they're hurt.  And turn away and don't play for at least a few seconds.  This is how puppies teach each other in the whelping box.  It's called bite inhibition and it's a good reason not to separate the puppies too young.
 
:)
 
Andrea


Beth <hrwest2001@...> wrote:
Well, so far we have been doing ok in getting Rambo to wait for
everything. Gracie has "asserted" herself a couple of times when
Rambo wanted to get up on my lap, but by last nigth they were both on
my lap with Gracie using his rump as a pillow. But.... there have
been some really difficult things too. Rambo likes to "mouth" you,
which I do not let him do. I have been giving him time outs for this
behaviour, not sure if this is right or not. And he is much worse
with my friend who is staying with me. He actually nipped her earlier
this moring. I have been making a point of both my friend and I doing
a little training with him off and on throughout the day. His Mom
gave us all the instructions on the stuff she is doing with him at
obedience classes and at home. But he is a very aggressive character
and on top of that I am sure he does not really know what is going on
here too.

Thanks for the ideas, and any others you guys might have will be
gratefully accepted.

Beth

--- In clicker-training-video@yahoogroups.com, Andrea Robinson
wrote:
>
> Very good points, Karen! The key is to reward him for waiting and
start by making him wait for only very short periods of time and
building on success.
>
> :)
>
> Andrea
>
>
> Karen Andy's ^i^ mom wrote:
> Rambo is exhibiting "normal" alpha behaviour. Normal to him,
abby normal to the rest of your "pack" I don't know his home
situation, but now is the time to not tolerate. He does NOT get
first anything. He sits and waits for everyone, including GracieAcie.
If he needs to watch you from a crate, that is what it takes. He
needs to understand that he is submissive to everyone in the house.
This includes every aspect of every day behaviour. Do not allow him
to enter a doorway before you. Keep on lead if you must. Do not allow
him on your lap, that is Gracie's spot. Do not let him eat anything
before anyone, and crate if you must. If you are going to make it
through the next 10 days, you must be firm and not equivocate a
single time. When he is "good" that is he waits his turn, lavish him
with praise and whatever he waited for. He will soon find he gets
Heaven when he waits his turn. You will be doing him a big favor. He
is confused and thinks he is the boss. Dogs need
> some check points in their lives, and that includes rules and
parameters. Dogs in the wild are very punctilious about the ranking
in their packs. And this carries over big time into the domesticated
dog. Yes, I watch Cesar and I have learned a lot, but I have been
reading about pack behaviour for years. Just never watched it
transform a dog until Cesar got a television program.
> Rambo will just love the GOOD attention he is getting and I would
bet his excitable behaviour calms down quite a bit with some firm
control. Again. Use a lead to bring him into the program.
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Anderson
> Andy's ^i^Mom
> Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/andyschild/
> http://www.andrewkeithanderson.tvheaven.com/
> www.andyschild.org


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#242 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Thu May 18, 2006 4:47 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Rambo will be our house guest
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Very good points, Karen!  The key is to reward him for waiting and start by making him wait for only very short periods of time and building on success.
 
:)
 
Andrea


Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...> wrote:
Rambo is exhibiting "normal" alpha behaviour. Normal to him, abby normal to the rest of your "pack"  I don't know his home situation, but now is the time to not tolerate.  He does NOT get first anything. He sits and waits for everyone, including GracieAcie. If he needs to watch you from a crate, that is what it takes. He needs to understand that he is submissive to everyone in the house.  This includes every aspect of every day behaviour.  Do not allow him to enter a doorway before you. Keep on lead if you must. Do not allow him on your lap, that is Gracie's spot. Do not let him eat anything before anyone, and crate if you must.  If you are going to make it through the next 10 days, you must be firm and not equivocate a single time.  When he is "good" that is he waits his turn, lavish him with praise and whatever he waited for. He will soon find he gets Heaven when he waits his turn. You will be doing him a big favor. He is confused and thinks he is the boss. Dogs need some check points in their lives, and that includes rules and parameters. Dogs in the wild are very punctilious about the ranking in their packs.  And this carries over big time into the domesticated dog. Yes, I watch Cesar and I have learned a lot, but I have been reading about pack behaviour for years. Just never watched it transform a dog until Cesar got a television program.
Rambo will just love the GOOD attention he is getting and I would bet his excitable behaviour calms down quite a bit with some firm control. Again. Use a lead to bring him into the program.


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 

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#241 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Tue May 16, 2006 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: Rambo will be our house guest
andys_child
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Rambo is exhibiting "normal" alpha behaviour. Normal to him, abby normal to the rest of your "pack"  I don't know his home situation, but now is the time to not tolerate.  He does NOT get first anything. He sits and waits for everyone, including GracieAcie. If he needs to watch you from a crate, that is what it takes. He needs to understand that he is submissive to everyone in the house.  This includes every aspect of every day behaviour.  Do not allow him to enter a doorway before you. Keep on lead if you must. Do not allow him on your lap, that is Gracie's spot. Do not let him eat anything before anyone, and crate if you must.  If you are going to make it through the next 10 days, you must be firm and not equivocate a single time.  When he is "good" that is he waits his turn, lavish him with praise and whatever he waited for. He will soon find he gets Heaven when he waits his turn. You will be doing him a big favor. He is confused and thinks he is the boss. Dogs need some check points in their lives, and that includes rules and parameters. Dogs in the wild are very punctilious about the ranking in their packs.  And this carries over big time into the domesticated dog. Yes, I watch Cesar and I have learned a lot, but I have been reading about pack behaviour for years. Just never watched it transform a dog until Cesar got a television program.
Rambo will just love the GOOD attention he is getting and I would bet his excitable behaviour calms down quite a bit with some firm control. Again. Use a lead to bring him into the program.


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


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#240 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Tue May 16, 2006 4:53 am
Subject: Re: HI From new Member
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Welcome!!!
 
What you want to do to get started is to just click at random -- Cooper does't need to be doing anything to "earn" it -- and treat. The treat can be a tidbit, play, a toy, whatever floats his boat.  It's got to be good enough so that he will work to get it. That's the key.  So some people take all their treats and put them on the floor and see which ones their dogs choose first. Their selections may surprise you!
 
Wait until Cooper realizes that the click means something before you do any actual training.  What you're doing is called installing or charging the clicker.  When you click and he turns around and runs to you to get his treat, then the clicker is installed.  Then you can use it to teach.
 
Try that and let us know how it works.  It might take a day or three, but some get it in 15 minutes.  Then I'll make some more suggestions, and others on the list with blind dogs will probably do the same.  :)
 
Andrea

sandy <sandyjm51@...> wrote:
Hello,

I have a blind dog. His name is Cooper , he's 1 1/2 years old, yellow
lab.I understand that he went blind at about 6 months--I adopted him
at 10 months.  We have been through a traditional basic obedience
class. I am interested in clicker training--have friends who are
totally sold on it. Have bought the book and the clicker, but then
couldn't find a clicker class close to me and I was a bit confused
without physically seeing it being done. Are there any tips specific
for blind dogs?

Thanks,
Sandy and Cooper.




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#239 From: "Beth" <hrwest2001@...>
Date: Mon May 15, 2006 9:18 pm
Subject: Rambo will be our house guest
graciemillic...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi everyone,

You could probably say that I have not been the most active member
here so far. Have barely had any time at all to do any reading about
clicker training, but the little that I have read leads me to believe
that this might help Gracie to gain the confidence she is lacking at
the moment. My main motivation to join was to help my friend who
adopted Rambo the Chi. (Very appropriate name) He is not quite 2
years old.

I will be "dog sitting" Rambo for about 10 days starting on Wed.
afternoon. When Rambo first came to his new home he was very
aggressive, and with traditional obedience training he is coming more
under control. And he seems to really like me now too, which sure
helps. He spent about 2 1/2 hours with me yesterday, his first time
away from his new home. At first he was totally stressed. Did not sit
still for a second. Running all over the house, back to the door over
and over again (up onto the kitchen table a trillion times!) pooped
in the living room. All this took place in the first 45 minutes. He
kept jumping at one of the counters also, which I found odd until I
realized that his mom had put the leash there. I let him have the
leash which I assume had her smell on it, and he sat right nown by
the kitchen door with his bowl of water and went into waiting mode
but still panting and stuff. So I took him for a walk around the
neighborhood hoping this would get some of the nervous energy taken
care of, which it did. When we were out for a walk he growled at the
two people that we met on the way, but when we got back home he was
way more calm and came to me for belly rubs, which totally surprised
me. At one point he decided that he should try to sit on my lap at
the same time as Gracie, and she wanted no part of sharing my lap. I
was careful to make her the first to get attention etc. Good thing he
is crate trained and will sleep in his crate at night. He is a greedy
little guy with the food too so I will feed them separately just to
be on the safe side. Any other suggestions, without the clicker at
this point? Gracie is quite shy with people, but I suspect that when
it comes to protecting her territory from another little do she will
stand her ground. Overall Gracie and Rambo seemed to get along ok,
although I am not sure how it will be when Gracie sees that Oops!
That guy is not going home tonight. Also, I am really not used to the
hyper kind of dog at all as Josephine was not hyper and Gracie is not
either. This upcoming visit might just help me to loose the weight
that I would like to!

Thanks, and have a wonderful day!

Beth

#238 From: "sandy" <sandyjm51@...>
Date: Sun May 14, 2006 4:36 am
Subject: HI From new Member
sandyjm51
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello,

I have a blind dog. His name is Cooper , he's 1 1/2 years old, yellow
lab.I understand that he went blind at about 6 months--I adopted him
at 10 months.  We have been through a traditional basic obedience
class. I am interested in clicker training--have friends who are
totally sold on it. Have bought the book and the clicker, but then
couldn't find a clicker class close to me and I was a bit confused
without physically seeing it being done. Are there any tips specific
for blind dogs?

Thanks,
Sandy and Cooper.

#237 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sun May 7, 2006 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Crushing videos
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I agree with you there.

Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...> wrote:
Like anything else that is sick and perverted, the more attention they get, the more they will comply and provide.  ...
 
 


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#236 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sun May 7, 2006 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 96
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Good for you! Thanks
 
andrea


arolittlebit1@... wrote:
Wrote to Senator Chris Dodd last night. He is the Senator from CT who is co-sponsoring the bill to allow evacuees to take their pets with them in an evacuation. Waiting for his reply.
Arlene, Little Bit, Pepper & Freddie...the Duck


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#235 From: arolittlebit1@...
Date: Sun May 7, 2006 10:50 am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 96
arolittlebit
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Wrote to Senator Chris Dodd last night. He is the Senator from CT who is co-sponsoring the bill to allow evacuees to take their pets with them in an evacuation. Waiting for his reply.
Arlene, Little Bit, Pepper & Freddie...the Duck

#234 From: Karen Andy's ^i^ mom <andys_child@...>
Date: Sun May 7, 2006 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: Crushing videos
andys_child
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Like anything else that is sick and perverted, the more attention they get, the more they will comply and provide.  I won't watch it, I have quite enough horror in my life ... I know they can track down all sorts of degenerates on the internet, I hope they do with this as well. Shoot, I can track any IP I want.


 
 
Karen Anderson
Andy's ^i^Mom
Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04
 


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#233 From: Andrea Robinson <andrearobinson93210@...>
Date: Sat May 6, 2006 4:54 pm
Subject: Fwd: [rocketdogrescue] *Pet Rescue Barbie*
andrearobins...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 


Pali Boucher <palisdoghouse@...> wrote:
To: rocketdogrescue@yahoogroups.com
From: "Pali Boucher" <palisdoghouse@...>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 00:10:35 -0700
Subject: [rocketdogrescue] *Pet Rescue Barbie*



*Pet Rescue Barbie*



This Christmas season, give the latest, hottest new Barbie -- K-9 Rescue
Barbie or Cat Rescue Barbie.

She comes with her own Ford Aerostar van, and various size dog crates
inside.

She has a cell phone that's barely working due to over use and underpayment.

Barbie herself is decked out in jeans, grungy athletic shoes, and a t-shirt
that says "Dogs are Better Than Any Other Living Thing on Earth".

She comes with a road atlas of every town and state in all of North America,
and a compass on the dashboard of the van.

Optional is the special Rescue Dog Barbie laptop computer with the names and
addresses of every other dog rescue person on earth, in case she gets
somewhere and a contact fails to show up.

Running buddy, "Lucky", the three-legged, blind Shih Tzu doll is available
for an additional $49.95.

For $89.95, you can complete the set with "Pissed off husband at home, Ken,"
and the various foster dogs at $20 each.

Prices for other accessories are:

Fake snow falling on Barbie's van: $12.95

Flat tire for Barbie's van: (see Barbie's Road Service")

Barbie's First Aid Kit: (human): $11.75, (canine): $69.50

Barbie's Speeding Ticket: $95 (Mississippi--$195)

Barbie's coat-that-she-had-to-buy-in-Minnesota: $85

Barbie's Vet Bill for Lucky in Vaughn, New Mexico: $63.45

Barbie's contact, Rhonda, who she had to give gas money to in Mesa Verde,
Texas: $20.

Barbie's bill to get her contact, Luis, out of jail in Bakersfield,
California: $500.

Barbie's bill to get Luis's dogs out of the pound in Bakersfield,
California: $265.

Barbie's hotel/kennel bill in Laughlin, Nevada, while she waits for her
contact:$532.

Barbie's overalls that she has to buy while in Minden, Nebraska, hunting
down lost coonhounds: $49.95

Pizza for Barbie's suspicious looking hitch-hiker with sick puppy: $15

Vet bill for hitch-hiker's sick puppy in Des Moines, Iowa: $143.29

Barbie's doggie wheelchair for "Klaus" the rescue dachshund in Leavenworth,
Kansas: $143.

Barbie's van detailing/fumigation from hauling parvo/kennel cough puppies:
$187.

Barbie's resume to get new job when she gets home from run: $29.95

And her sister doll - Cat Rescue Barbie, who comes with the same equipment,
(substitute "cat" for "dog"), also:

Folding ladder in vehicle: $129.95

Have-a-heart trap: $29.95

Cans of tuna for baiting trap: $11.95

Long handled fishing net: $39.95

Case of Simple Solution: $259.95

Black light (to detect cat urine): $29.95

Tee shirt that says "The More I Know About Men, The More I Love My Cat"
$19.95

Running buddy "Jeep" - 3-legged tailless cat named after vehicle that
claimed her missing appendages: $89.95

Vet bill for Jeep $397.95

Friend Edith, 87-year-old feral colony feeder, who calls begging favors when
her arthritis acts up and she can't get out. $59.95

Food for Edith's colony cats (after all, Edith is on Social Security)
$139.95

Friend Margie, do-gooder with pristine home and one spoiled cat, whose idea
of being a rescuer is to pick up strays and take them to Barbie for rehab,
vetting, fostering, and placement. $89.95

Vet bills for Margie's rescues $892.95

Mother Sadie, who calls weekly to ask Barbie when she is getting rid of
those smelly cats and giving her some grandchildren $ 89.95(telephone extra)

Shrink who talks Barbie out of killing above-mentioned persons each week
$500

Vet who makes house calls, refuses to perform declaw surgeries and doesn't
blink at unannounced visits or odd-hour consultations: *priceless*

_________________________________________________________________
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