Andrea, your reply is so involved and detailed, I am saving to a text file so I can study it.

 

Ha-ha! You flatter me! And here I thought I was just rambling along...Never thought anyone would want to study my "ramblings!"  :)

 

I think Cesar's work points out one deficience of dog 'owners' in that they get bad behaviour from a pup but they have not set limits, they have not set their alpha.

 

Yes, it is SOOO much easier to train them earlier! 

 

I agree consistency is KEY, as well as control.  So while I have never needed to use his techniques with my houseful, I now do.

 

I'm not intimately acquainted with everything Cesar does.  I did see part of one of his videos on the Internet and it seemed impressive to me, but I did not see how he gave the "vibes" that he was alpha.  I remember that he was showing a lady how to get her dog to heel, and it really was true that the dog would heel with him, even if he didn't say anything to the dog, and the dog would not heel with the lady and would pull on the leash.  But he didn't really tell her exactly what he was doing and what she was doing wrong.  He just said she had to have the right attitude.

 

I think that is one thing that people find problematic with his techniques.  It's not that he doesn't have good control of the dogs, because he does.  But if all you do is tell the person that they have the wrong attitude and they have to be the "alpha," that statement is loose enough that all kinds of people could interpret it different ways.  One person might growl and bare their own teeth at the dog (I was actually told to do this years ago when I first got into dog training -- but I thought that my teeth were too unimpressive so I eventually gave it up).  Anyway, you get the idea.  People could use his statement to really go overboard on the harsh treatment.  As long as you make it clear to Allicks what she needs to do to succeed rather than hammer on what she's doing wrong, she will improve. 

 

AllicksBlindPup has had basic obedience, she is extremely intelligent and very high energy. She races through life at 100 mph, but listens to me when I get the 'voice'. 

 

Ha-ha! I can just picture this!

 

I have an 'application' in to the group ... applied and was denied... ?

 

Oh, my gosh! That's no good!  I don't know why they would deny you unless it's because you're not a "professional" dog trainer -- but you do enough rescue/rehab/adopt out work that you qualify, in my opinion!  Anyway, if that's the case, I will just do some cutting and pasting and share with you what I think are the important points.  (Unless they forbid this due to copyright issues ... I'll have to re-read the group rules.)

 

THANK YOU, Christy my cousin who is living here and working with both Allicks & Gabriel (in fact she is the one who touch trained Gabriel) We work with shelter dogs in socializing and play, as well as basic obedience on that odd Saturday when we don't have a milloin other things to do, like tomorrow we are setting up our Petsmart Rescue & Education Booth for LWAR-C.

 

Yes, Christy -- you are a doll! We love you.  :)

 

I have read that if a person backs out of the alpha issue, it will be resolved by itself.

 

What does that mean?  Do you mean the competition for status among the dogs?  It's not always wise to let them "work it out" -- there may be bloodshed, recurring problems, etc.  Remember that families are artificial packs in which neither dog is free to leave.  That can create a pressure cooker.

 

In my house, there is no issue with Gabriel. He is just oblivious to her and not even near her when she attacks. He is no challenge,

 

Good! I know that he has not been to a formal obedience class -- has he been socialized with other dogs outside the family? 

 

and she certainly cannot see him, being blind. She may know that he is deaf and blind,

 

How does she know when he is around? Do you think it is noises, smells, etc.?  Have you tried any "classical conditioning"?  That just means that you find out how far away from each other they need to be in order to maintain the peace, and then treat both of them everytime they are around each other until they begin to look forward to it (this requires two handlers, of course).  Then you move them in one foot or so.  If they always required 20 feet between them, you wait until they are successfully taking the treats and acting happy 80% of the time at that distance.  Then you can change your distance to 19 feet.

 

but he stays clear of her.

 

Yeah, I guess he would!  I assume that the only way he can know she is around is by scent ... or vibrations.  It's so interesting.

 

Last night, she came within 3 inches of his behind, Christy had his collar, while I had hers. And the low rumblel which precedes an all out attack came from her throat. STRONG correction with collar and off to the bedroom where she lives.

 

So I would suggest controlling their movements so they are never beyond their threshold of success until you've had a chance to do the classical conditioning.

 

Classical conditioning (as I understand it) just means that when two events occur together all the time, you begin to expect one of those events to happen anytime the other happens.  It can be good or bad associations.  For example, if everytime I walk to the store, a car drives by and splashes water on me, I start to expect it and take measures to prevent getting splashed.  Or, if everytime I'm around a cute male and he says nice, flirty things to me, I try to spend more time with him.  It takes time.  If you punish one of the dogs when the other is around, they may start to association the presence of the other dog as a precursor to being punished.

 

She will have to go back downstairs which I HATE, because she so loves people. But she cannot continue to live in a bedroom.

 

Why? Is he in the bedroom, too? 

 

Looking forward to hearing more.  You're on the right track. Keep it up!

Andrea

 

 

Karen Anderson

Andy's ^i^Mom

Andrew Keith Anderson 6/17/80 ~ 11/5/04

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/andyschild/

http://www.andrewkeithanderson.tvheaven.com/

www.andyschild.org

 

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