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  • Members: 222
  • Category: Directors
  • Founded: Jun 13, 2003
  • Language: English
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Re: Morality

about morality...

In his book "Notes et Contre-Notes", Ionesco (who is one of
my
favorite artists) makes his case for an amoral look at art. He is
mainly angry with the critics who criticize works of art for moral
reason but he also claims that art, the essential part of it, has
nothing to do with morality, not in a direct way. I agree with his
theories 100% so instead of quoting him I'll just explain what I
think.

Ideology, morality and political beliefs are not the essential things
about the "human nature". They cannot be. Nothing proves us that our
morality is any better than anybody else's (unless, of course, you
like to believe that we have been told everything we need to know
about morality by a superior being). Many of us surely have found one
day that the whole system of thoughts we had built up until then were
nothing but an illusion. And I cannot see why that cannot happen
again tomorrow, or maybe even in the next five minutes. For any
skeptic, morality is simply a choice, determined by our "nature" AND
our past.

However, there are things about me that are not choices and that I
KNOW FOR SURE. I know that I have desires; I know that they sometimes
conflict with the universe, and that sometimes they don't. I know I
have problems and insecurities that throw me off-balance when the
life feels like it. I know I look for meaning or purpose (even when I
know there is none). I know the way I experience the world through my
senses is only one way of experiencing the world, and there probably
are infinite number of other ways. And I know some other stuff that I
don't feel comfortable sharing with you. These are things that don't
change with my mood, my age, my experiences, etc. And I believe these
are the things that make us "the same". There is a truth
about us
that is "beyond personality" and "beyond good and evil".

What I like about good/great art is that it captures these truths in
some form.
Obviously, all of my argument falls apart if you do think that there
is a "universal criteria for good and evil". I believe we can
"not
care" about our moral judgments if we really are trying to find
the
essential and I know a few people who achieved that.

Yoel




Thu Aug 7, 2003 12:36 pm

ymeranda
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... I don't agree with in the collected canons of Clint ... their best ... ideological ... Actually, Siegel was politically very liberal....
Damien Bona
damienbona Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
7:59 am

about morality... In his book "Notes et Contre-Notes", Ionesco (who is one of my favorite artists) makes his case for an amoral look at art. He is mainly angry...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda Offline Send Email
Aug 7, 2003
12:36 pm

... I am concerned that my position might be misunderstood, because the arguments that you put forth aren't anything I'd disagree with. It wasn't me who...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 7, 2003
3:28 pm

... If you can deal with MY SON ... I realise I go against the grain of the way people generally interpret MY JOHN SON, but I do feel that McCarey is decrying...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
3:58 am

If we agree, we agree. I can't recall ever having been bothered by something that was said or "demonstrated" in a film I liked. I often see dumb or destructive...
hotlove666 Offline Send Email Aug 7, 2003
4:04 pm

... Here we might have located an area of difference. Seems to me that talented directors display bothersome attitudes pretty often. Guess that leaves me...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 7, 2003
5:27 pm

Since I got way behind I have wound up replying to a number of posts in the "Morality" and related threads as I've read them. The result is a series of not...
Fred Camper
fredcamper Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
3:25 am

Fred: "the notion that seeing an auteur film is like having dinner with the director, or something. (I realize Dan wasn't saying this, but others have come...
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
6:26 am

I'm picking up one small point out of Jaime's fascinating and passionate post, but, as the man says, it's late. ... For me, there is real satisfaction in...
ptonguette@...
peter_tonguette Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
7:31 am

... <j_christley@y...> wrote: I might say, for instance, that a lot of films ... to ... I do think it's self-evident that we can comprehend a lot about an ...
Damien Bona
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Aug 8, 2003
8:35 am

... Yeah, I think so. It's really hard to write something good about a film one dislikes - or, rather, you never really know whether you've written anything...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
4:18 pm

... only a ... retro in ... It did me. I loved all the films shown in the 1985 retrospective, which I saw at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. Unfortunately I...
Paul Gallagher
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Aug 10, 2003
11:02 pm

... only a ... retro in ... It did me. I loved all the films shown in the 1985 retrospective, which I saw at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. Unfortunately I...
Paul Gallagher
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Aug 10, 2003
11:03 pm

... Maybe it's not necessary, but I just wanted to point out that I wasn't arguing at all that there is any correspondence between a director's personality on...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
4:02 am

Presumably, linking dolly shots and morality is a shorthand for saying that a relationship exists between the filmmaker and the reality he or she purports to...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 8, 2003
4:08 am

... I don't want you to think I was projecting some of my in-the-Spielberg-camp resentment onto you at the end of my long, rambling post (see message #985),...
Jaime N. Christley
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Aug 8, 2003
7:00 am

... I won't get into the Schindler's List question right now, but I'll say for the record that I think A.I. is a masterpiece, and that looking at a bunch of...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 8, 2003
8:44 am

... I'd certainly give it one "creepy" at least. I rejected the request to sloppily embrace a character as dubious, in some respects, as Royal (the admittedly...
jess_l_amortell Offline Send Email Aug 8, 2003
4:09 pm

... Which strikes me as a wise position. But a lot of people who see both good and evil in themselves still reject evil things, whereever they emanate from....
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
5:17 am

Dan wrote (981): "...one who works primarily with, through, and about cinema conventions and the relative nature of realism. In some ways I think he's more...
Yoel Meranda
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Aug 8, 2003
12:27 pm

... No, I think you're right! I don't remember the shot in question, but in general I think that Warhol is intentionally neglectful of the beauty of the...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
4:29 pm

... I'm not sure if I'm following this discussion accurately but I'd like to point out that Warhol's "intentionally neglectful" approach to cinematography (I...
Steve Polta
stevepolta Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
7:42 pm

... Yes, yes, yes, Warhol's films (and paintings) are, at their best, *very* beautiful. It's a beauty of color (or blacks and grays and whites) and surface and...
Fred Camper
fredcamper Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
7:56 pm

... I buy this. - Dan...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 9, 2003
3:48 am

... Capra is such a bother, because he looked as if he was going to be an amazing director before he took that turn into "demagoguery," as Sarris put it. It's...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
5:31 am

Can't say I ... I didn't think THE ROYAL TENENBAUMS was a 'bad' film -- it wound up on my best-of-the-year list -- but I'm still trying to analyse my intensely...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 8, 2003
8:58 am

Zach Cambell wrote: I can see the Kubrick connection you mention (I hadn't thought about it in terms of Anderson's work before, so it's interesting), but I...
vincent lobrutto
vincentlobrutto Offline Send Email
Aug 8, 2003
2:52 pm

... Well, you could think of it the other way around, as a children's book (maybe a teen-age child's book) invaded by trauma. Anderson leads with the fable,...
Dan Sallitt
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Aug 8, 2003
3:57 pm

... book ... with ... I ... change ... Sure, but I still feel like there's something hysterical and unresolved at the film's core. In a lot of ways I feel like...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 9, 2003
6:33 am

A few more references mentioned in the commentary: *The opening title card was inspired by The Red Shoes. *The opening sequence was influenced by The...
Tristan
godard52 Offline Send Email
Aug 9, 2003
6:24 pm
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