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The Corporation vs. Nick Ray   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #8239 of 48868 |
Re: [a_film_by] The Corporation vs. Nick Ray


Dan Sallitt wrote:

> Is that because
>different people are going to the movies, and for different reasons?
>
>
Here's a highly speculative thesis, and one I'm not especially prepared
to defend, though I've long suspected it has some truth. Starting in the
late 1960s audiences became more self-conscious that they were going to
the cinemah. They became more conscious viewers, more appreciative of
distinctly cinematic flourishes. Even highly commercial films began to
project their "style" -- flashy cutting, nice decor, self-conscious
acting -- in a way that got viewers' attention, because viewers now were
a little bit more demanding than the average viewer of "Red River" or
"All That Heaven Allows." Superficially, this new situation might seem
to encourage creative and "artistic" film directing. But the great
masterpieces of classical Hollywood always worked on two levels: "Red
River" was an "oater," a standard Western that fulfilled naive
entertainment functions, as well as a film about the interrelationship
of landscape to character. On the genre level Hawks or Sirk had to do
certain things, whereas on a sub-rosa level (and in Hawks's case,
perhaps without even being consciously aware of it) they could do
something quite different. And since no one in the studios was really
able to see or understand the "sub-rosa level" (if there were such
people, then perhaps Harry Cohn could have written "The American Cinema"
a decade before Sarris), there were no Harveys who know they understand
"cinema" because they cut their teeth viewing a Truffaut movie telling
Sirk to cut down on the weirdly-positioned flowers at the sides of the
frame, and he had almost total freedom.

But as audiences became more demanding, their demands were not so much
for the profundity of Sirk but for the self-conscious and simpler
stylizations, of, say, "Far From Heaven," to choose a film that I quite
liked. This, paradoxically, encouraged directorial stylists whose
flourishes were more obvious, and in which the two levels are collapsed
into one, one that because it needs to be able to appeal to mass tastes
is almost by definition less profound. Hence we got more "style" but
less real art. This is a shift that may have helped Tarantino, but it
sure hurt Monte Hellman.

- Fred C.




Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:31 pm

fredcamper
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... I agree, but I take it pretty much for granted that a corporate dude isn't going to act like Nick Ray. What I wonder about is how much functional...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Mar 13, 2004
3:49 pm

... Zanuck was enormously practical. Abe Polansky loved him because he always gave you a stright answer with no ambiguity. Quite a contrast form today's ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Mar 13, 2004
4:09 pm

... "Economists are generally more self-interested than non-economists. This is not just because economics attracts aspiring investment bankers who dream of...
Frederick M. Veith
fredveith
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Mar 13, 2004
4:26 pm

... I'm not asking here about whether the studios today are less congenial environments for studio heads. I'm wondering whether they are less congenial...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Mar 13, 2004
4:32 pm

... They most certainly are. Just ask Altman. Were the ... It's not a question of formulas. In the heyday of the studio system everything made money. "Yolanda...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Mar 13, 2004
5:11 pm

... 'm not sure ... Zanuck would lost money in a film like Wilson easier than the people that run studios today because he care for it, but those weren´t the...
filipefurtado
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Mar 13, 2004
5:10 pm

... And that raises interesting questions. Because it seems as if the films made by these directors wouldn't be commercial today. Is that because different...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Mar 13, 2004
5:24 pm

... Gus made "Elephant" for HBO with zilch interference. ... And maybe not. I'd rather Zanuck than Weinstein. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!?...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Mar 13, 2004
5:50 pm

... Yeah, I think this is very much to the point. - Dan...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Mar 13, 2004
5:26 pm

... Here's a highly speculative thesis, and one I'm not especially prepared to defend, though I've long suspected it has some truth. Starting in the late 1960s...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 13, 2004
6:31 pm

Might I add a footnote that the space between films per director in Hollywood, even successful ones, seems to have vastly increased. Ray made something like 15...
Patrick Ciccone
pwciccone
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Mar 13, 2004
7:11 pm

... that they were going to the cinemah. They became more conscious viewers, more appreciative of distinctly cinematic flourishes. Even highly commercial films...
jaketwilson
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Mar 14, 2004
2:51 am

... subservient to ... be ... longing ... I don't think I agree. My observations may not be representative, but I rarely seem to encounter non-specialist...
jaketwilson
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Mar 14, 2004
2:21 am

... Yes, of course; I don't want to start getting overly snooty about assertions about what the "popular" audience didn't "understand" because they never...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 14, 2004
4:46 am
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