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Re: NIGHT AND FOG (Regarding "The Passion")   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #8029 of 48868 |
Re: [a_film_by] Claude Lanzmann [was: Re: NIGHT AND FOG (Regarding "The Passion")]

I haven't seen "Sobibor." I liked "A Visitor From the Living" OK but not
particularly as "art." That Lanzmann might be meglomaniacal should not
affect any assessment of his work, since we know that many great artists
are, or were, meglomaniacs. And to retreat to my base theoretical
position, I agree that anything can be good, or great, including a
tasteless Holocaust melodrama that misrepresents everything, though I've
not seen any examples of same. But I used to joke that it would take
something really awful both aesthetically and morally to get me to write
a negative review of an art exhibit by an unknown, and my example was
often "holocaust porn," though I didn't have a clear idea what that
might be. Then I saw some collaged photos by Boris Laurie that included
concentration camp images and naked women, and thought that in a
horrible way they were actually really good. I supposed it helped me in
announcing that opinion that he wasn't some art school punk but a Jewish
survivor of more than one Nazi camp. But still, anything can be good.

That said, I *do* think there is an important issue around the nature of
film imagery, and its psychological effect on the viewer, that "Shoah"
articulates beautifully and movingly. This is something that I've been
thinking about for years, and that goes back as well to the fact that
the alleged first film shows the filmmakers' employees leaving his
factory at the time of his choosing. The standard range of possessive
relationships between filmmaker and image, and between viewer and image,
is questioned rather profoundly in "Shoah."

- Fred




Fri Mar 5, 2004 5:14 am

fredcamper
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Fred, I'd say this is a matter of personal taste. There have been many good films about the Shoah, not just one, and there are many ways of showing or not...
hotlove666
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Mar 4, 2004
6:07 pm

I'm not sure I'd call it personal taste, but the point is well taken, especially vis-a-vis Lanzmann's megalomania. I do think Shoah is quite a remarkable...
Frederick M. Veith
fredveith
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Mar 5, 2004
3:18 am

I haven't seen "Sobibor." I liked "A Visitor From the Living" OK but not particularly as "art." That Lanzmann might be meglomaniacal should not affect any...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 5, 2004
5:15 am

I didn't mean to imply anything so crude as to suggest that megalomania leads to bad art (or even diminishes good art). I think Bill's post handled this nicely...
Frederick M. Veith
fredveith
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Mar 5, 2004
3:34 pm

I think that the point I take from Lanzmann, against showing certain things, needn't depend on his politics. I don't agree with his politics. I also don't like...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 5, 2004
4:46 pm

... I think it worth quoting from Adorno's 'recant' at length: "But since, in a world whose law is universal individual profit, the individual has nothing but...
Frederick M. Veith
fredveith
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Mar 5, 2004
6:23 pm

... I should emphasize that the long quote was by Sacha Martinetti, criticizing Lanzmann's construction of Jewish identity. Here's a translation of Lanzmann's...
Paul Gallagher
pcg
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Mar 5, 2004
6:44 pm

I saw "Sobibor" and, if you didn't already know, it's a necessarily gruesome film about the only successful armed revolt in a concentration camp--the prisoners...
Doug Cummings
deepysea
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Mar 5, 2004
4:57 pm

Insightful comments from NIGHT and FOG, SHOAH thread. There are a few films about bicycle thieves (THE BICYCLE THIEF, BEIJING BICYCLE, CYCLO) which all revolve...
Elizabeth Anne Nolan
eanmdphd
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Mar 5, 2004
5:05 pm

... I think this message I sent yesterday might have gotten lost, so I'm ... This is an interesting topic. (Haven't seen SHOAH.) I think Lanzmann has a point...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Mar 5, 2004
9:57 pm

... Movie ... and ... are ... I guess it was a major issue for all Nouvelle Vague filmmakers. Refuse all effects and film "things to the core". "To show the ...
Maxime Renaudin
jaloysius56
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Mar 7, 2004
9:42 pm

Some interesting comments Sacha Martinetti-Lévy recently made on fr.cinema.discussion: L'hypothèse de la singularité chez Lanzmann est de nature politique....
Paul Gallagher
pcg
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Mar 5, 2004
7:28 am
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