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Re: Cineaste, auteur etc: A group FAQ?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #7437 of 48938 |
Re: [a_film_by] Re: the Same Old Arguments

> There are a number of people in any movie who can be working
at their
> full creative energy. Which one of them matters the most, o
r how many
> of them matter, is an aesthetic judgment.
>
> That's why I don't like to say, "Chayevsky is really the aut
eur of THE
> HOSPITAL," or whatever. This is just another way of saying,
"I think
> the film is worthy, and I think Chayevsky is the reason" -
an aesthetic
> judgment, not an act of identification and classification.

Chayevsky is the major creative force behind The Hospital,
but well that´s true to every Arthur Hiller film doesn't
matter who write it. So I guess this says more about Hiller
than Chayevsky. I guess even Chayevsky knows that, he always
carefullt choose his directors, the only two times (if I'm
not mistaken) that he work with directors with some
reputation were Network and Altered States. And Sidney Lumet
was a filmmaker who never made secret of how important he
think writing were; which lefts the Russell film that
Chayevsky himself disowned.

I do think that sometimes a film can survive lousy direction,
which doesn´t mean someone else is really the film auteur. I
have a auteurist friend who wrote once that The Hospital was
the only good Arthur Hiller film, thanks to George C. Scott
(not that Scott was the auteur, only that he beieve his
performance makes for the mediocre direction). I think the
reason why early Marx Brothers is better than the late ones
has little to do with Norman Z. Mcleod being better or worse
director than Sam Wood or David Miller (of course that Duck
Soup is by far their best film has something to do with Leo
McCarey).

Filipe

For me,
> Hiller is the most important person on the set of THE HOSPIT
AL, because
> I needed something from him that I didn't get. But I don't
want to
> convert that statement into "Hiller is the auteur." I don't
feel
> comfortable using the word "auteur" to mean "the most powerf
ul or most
> crucial contributor," because I think that's an aesthetic ju
dgment, and
> should be exposed as such instead of hidden behind an illuso
ry system of
> objective classification.
>
> I consider someone an auteurist if he or she generally consi
ders the
> direction the most important factor in a film's value. If t
here are too
> many films like THE HOSPITAL in your canon, maybe you need t
o think
> about turning in your membership card. But that's no big de
al, really -
> it's not as if all the auteurists in the world have that muc
h in common,
> as we have learned on this list.
>
> - Dan
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


---
Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela.
AntiPop-up UOL - É grátis!
http://antipopup.uol.com.br




Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:55 pm

filipefurtado
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Forward
Message #7437 of 48938 |
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To Bill, definitions would be great. Thanks in advance. To all, perhaps we should gradually construct a FAQ for our group? ("FAQ" = a very common 'Net term for...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Feb 12, 2004
12:35 am

... notion ... I'm having a hell of a time duking it out with some youngsters on the Rotten Tomatoes discussion board ...
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley
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Feb 12, 2004
1:12 am

Do the people you talk with watch many silent movies? It is hard to look at the visual glories of Griffith, Eisenstein, Sternberg, Stroheim, Keaton, etc, and...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Feb 12, 2004
1:51 am

... the ... Pretty interesting discussion, though I got exhausted well before the end. One thing that struck me was the mention of Paddy Chayevsky, who also...
jaketwilson
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Feb 12, 2004
11:46 am

... Chayevsky is the auteur of all the films written by him with the exception of "Altered States." Cromwell and Lumet are both very fine directors (and...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
2:49 pm

... Do you ever know any other way to put things? ... Obviously a strong writer will overpower a weak director. But that doesn't make the writer an auteur....
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley
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Feb 12, 2004
3:06 pm

... You act as if there's something "unnatural" about this. It doesn't "diminish" the work in question at all. It's a simple fact of film history and...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
4:37 pm

... What? I don't follow. ... How can I get used to something that registers as just plain incorrect, and barely makes sense? -Jaime...
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley
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Feb 12, 2004
4:42 pm

... What's incorrext or nonsensical about it? Chayevsky didn't just write "Network" -- he produced it. He HIRED Sidney Lumet to direct his script and had ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
4:55 pm

... I mean, could you support your argument with another film? I mean, the circumstances you describe would seem to support auteurism because the strong and...
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley
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Feb 12, 2004
5:18 pm

... Look at "The Best Man" -- written and produced by Gore Vidal and directed by Franklin Schaffner. Not bland at all. ... Right. Much like Russell's...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
5:49 pm

... I'll check it out when I get a chance. ... I disagree and feel you're misusing the term, but you know I think that. ... Straw man. Never said that. -Jaime...
Jaime N. Christley
j_christley
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Feb 12, 2004
5:59 pm

... See, I take issue with Meyers' assumption that there is an innate dominance at work within any particular movie. And she's far from the only one who talks...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Feb 12, 2004
4:20 pm

... at their ... r how many ... eur of THE ... "I think ... an aesthetic ... Chayevsky is the major creative force behind The Hospital, but well that´s true...
filipefurtado
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Feb 12, 2004
5:01 pm

... I ... Nope. "The In-Laws" -- and Andrew Bergman film directed by Arthur Hiller -- is superiror. I ... Or not. __________________________________ Do you...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
5:44 pm

I think I agree with both David and Jaime here, if that's possible. I saw "Network" on its initial release. I enjoyed it mildly for the bitter and telling...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Feb 12, 2004
5:18 pm

... to rate "Network" as a bad film ... and ... dogma, and I've found very few exceptions. ... Fred, arguing with himself: Aren't you contradicting yourself...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Feb 12, 2004
5:47 pm

... I don't consider Chuck Walters to be an auteur, Fred. or who Bertolucci boffed during which ... Or Allen Midgette either. Maybe it will be healthy for our...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
5:58 pm

... As we've discussed before, "auteur" can mean "great director who is the author of his films," but it can also mean "director who is clearly the author of...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Feb 12, 2004
6:17 pm

... Obviously, having power over a film is very important. But this idea way pre-dates auteurism. America has always lavished attention on powerful directors...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Feb 12, 2004
6:44 pm

... What's more or less original about auteurism ... And then they might NOT. I'm perfectlyaware of the fac that this is Absolute Sacrilege, but Howard hawks...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Feb 12, 2004
7:09 pm

... Excellent observation as usual, Dan. We should really slide away from the "X is *really* the auteur" statements (and even, "X and Y are both the real...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Feb 12, 2004
8:06 pm

... there's at least one other member of this group who is willing to join in the absolute sacrilege -- myself. There are three, maybe four Hawks films I love...
jpcoursodon
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Feb 13, 2004
12:53 am

... -- Tosh Berman TamTam Books http://www.tamtambooks.com...
Tosh
tosh3@...
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Feb 13, 2004
4:41 am

... Sure, but...? No one would disagree with this. ... Sacrilege is fine - I certainly don't like every director in the auteurist canon. But I'm trying to...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Feb 13, 2004
3:19 am

I think Dan is right on target about what auteurism contributed. An addendum, though: ... I think maybe auteurism was needed to appreciate some *late*...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Feb 13, 2004
3:31 am

... I always found Dan's formulation to be extremely useful, that the auteur theory isn't really a theory so much as an aesthetic. As such it allows that...
Joseph Kaufman
joka13us
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Feb 12, 2004
9:58 am
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