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Rosenbaum Disses Bergman in the NYT   Message List  
Reply Message #45887 of 48979 |
Reads him like the telephone directory!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/opinion/04jrosenbaum.html

In light of this gleeful putdown he should consider
getting a pre-emptive restraining order from Woody Allen.



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Sat Aug 4, 2007 2:04 pm

cellar47
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Message #45887 of 48979 |
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Reads him like the telephone directory! http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/04/opinion/04jrosenbaum.html In light of this gleeful putdown he should consider getting...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
2:04 pm

... As big a fan as I am of Jonathan's, I'm rather perturbed by the following ... Um, says who, exactly? Bergman's work is actually quite widely available on ...
Bilge Ebiri
bilge_ebiri
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Aug 4, 2007
3:09 pm

... In Britain, it's easiest to list the titles that AREN'T available, which I think are currently: It Rains On Our Love A Ship To India Brink of Life The...
Michael Brooke
bfimichael
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Aug 4, 2007
8:32 pm

Almost every statement in this rather shallow article could be challenged on the ground of irrelevance, biased vision,unfairness, questionable reasoning or...
jpcoursodon
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Aug 4, 2007
3:15 pm

... JP, have you read the article? It's true that I praise Bergman as an entertainer and compare him to George Cukor (which to me is no insult), but I also...
Jonathan Rosenbaum
dreyertati
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Aug 4, 2007
3:47 pm

... wrote: The article is meant to stir the pot, ... And Boy Howdy does it ever! Woody's therapists are going to be working overtime becuase of your piece. ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
3:57 pm

... Obviously I did. I couldn't have written all the nasty things I wrote about it if I hadn't! It's true that I praise Bergman as an ... both ... that ... ...
jpcoursodon
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Aug 4, 2007
4:44 pm

Re: Rosenbaum Disses Bergman in the NYT ... those who think movies ... Well, I guess if you can ignore sizable chunks of my argument in order to settle on just...
Jonathan Rosenbaum
dreyertati
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Aug 4, 2007
5:12 pm

... That "even though" makes it sound as if you still have a point, but the fact is that Bresson and Dreyer *combined* didn't direct as many features as ...
Bilge Ebiri
bilge_ebiri
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Aug 4, 2007
5:24 pm

... relevance, ... preoccupied, for ... generous ones ... Bergman ... than one. ... Thanks for the lengthy post, Bilge. Most of your points seem perfectly ...
Jonathan Rosenbaum
dreyertati
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Aug 4, 2007
6:02 pm

... wrote: For whatever it's worth, I'm something of ... It's my second-favorite Bergman film -- right after "Persona." ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
8:08 pm

... And what about Bresson? Recent Bresson retorspectives have proven surprisingly popular -- esepcially after years and years of Bergman-worshipping critics...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
7:51 pm

... I have no problems with that. I like Bresson a great deal, and couldn't be happier that his work is now more popular and available. This is why I do not...
Bilge Ebiri
bilge_ebiri
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Aug 4, 2007
8:09 pm

I thought Bilge was arguing that Wong is indeed "fashionable". I also think that Godard is enormously popular with audiences that are commonly construed as...
Jack Angstreich
jackangstreich
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Aug 6, 2007
7:20 am

I thought Tarkovsky said Bresson was his favorite filmmaker; am I mistaken? Jack Angstreich ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
Jack Angstreich
jackangstreich
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Aug 6, 2007
7:03 am

... I'm not sure Tarkovsky would have wanted to choose between them, or to worry much about ranking them. I remember reading somewhere that Tarkovsky said that...
Bilge Ebiri
bilge_ebiri
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Aug 6, 2007
7:18 am

I thought Robin Wood's book on Bergman was largely an argument (of a Leavisite kind) for Bergman's relevance; I understand that Wood has since changed his mind...
Jack Angstreich
jackangstreich
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Aug 6, 2007
7:09 am

... Robin Wood's book is a personal confession hedging towards an apologia pro vita sua. ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 6, 2007
1:25 pm

You have a point, j-p. But Jonathan's real taregt here isn't Bergman but Woody Allen and the NYT readers who regard Woody as a cultural arbiter. ... ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
3:52 pm

Well, if that's the case, the real target is cleverly concealed behind the ostensible one, which is definitely Bergman.JPC ... ...
jpcoursodon
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Aug 4, 2007
4:35 pm

This article says that "fluid storytelling" makes an artist "less important". Belief that storytelling is bad is widespread. But it is not consistent with a...
Michael E. Grost
nzkpzq
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Aug 4, 2007
4:37 pm

... It's a bit of leap to go from my claim that Bergman's fluid storytelling entailed a reluctance to challenge conventional filmgoing habits to the argument...
Jonathan Rosenbaum
dreyertati
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Aug 4, 2007
4:55 pm

I'm a huge admirer of Rosenbaum's "Essential Cinema", which I've praised before in a_film_by. Mr. Rosenbaum's post about what he meant to say about Bergman...
Michael E. Grost
nzkpzq
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Aug 4, 2007
5:20 pm

"Mr. Bergman simply used film (and later, video) to translate shadow- plays staged in his mind — relatively private psychodramas about his own relationships...
thebradstevens
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Aug 4, 2007
5:43 pm

... No. It was Manoel de Oliviera who said the motion picture camera was a device created in order to record great works of theater. I ... You haven't seen...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 4, 2007
7:53 pm

... "All films are about the theatre, there is no other subject." Jacques Rivette, Cahiers du Cinema, 1968. But of course, as David suggests, Rivette said this...
Jonathan Rosenbaum
dreyertati
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Aug 4, 2007
8:06 pm

... Jacques ... of ... Rivette was obviously being deliberately provocative when he made that statement. But its implications are fascinating. Far from ...
thebradstevens
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Aug 4, 2007
9:04 pm

... suggests, ... 1 ... one ... that ... SCENES ... the ... Terrific observation, Brad, which I hope was not overlooked in the heat of a wide-ranging...
Blake Lucas
lukethedealer12
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Aug 5, 2007
5:02 pm

... That may be, but I'm pretty sure that Rivette said theatre was the true subject of cinema (which is not at all the same thing as saying that the camera is...
thebradstevens
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Aug 4, 2007
8:27 pm
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