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Kiss Me, Stupid (spoilers ahead, lots of 'em)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #39933 of 48868 |
Re: Theories of Disagreement (Was: Barry Lyndon)

Hats off to Mike's and Dan's thoughtful posts.

A short answer to Dan: I don't attempt to construct a personality for
an auteur. I'm looking for something else. When I look at NBNW, I am
not thinking about Hitchcock's personality. I'm thinking about his
art. And I know a lot about Hitchcock's personality! Ditto for Fuller
and Boetticher, whom I knew well: When I watch China Gate or Seven
Men from Now, I'm not thinking about Sam and Budd, except as artists,
and strangely, I don't see much of the man in the artist. The films
are always a surprising revelation to me of "who" the men I knew
really were - a misleading way to put it, because that "who" isn't a
person in any of the usual senses. Maybe I'm arguing for a theory of
artistic impersonality? I'm not sure. The one case where this may not
apply to how I saw the films in the early days is Hawks, where
certain eccentricities I loved in the films did suggest a "person"
behind them. But I wouldn't see them that way today.

Here's an offbeat approach to the person behind the film, a site that
lsts auteurs religions. It's of dubious value whatever version of the
auteur theory one has, but I thought I'd share it:

http://www.adherents.com/movies/adh_dir.html

I would also say that know ing auteurs, what I do carry away from the
encoubnter is usually respect for the person's intelligence, which is
great in the case of Fuller or Boeticher, say. And I have never been
disappointed in an encounter with someone who's work I love, because
the personality is always a big, stron, original one. But it isn't
what I love in the films.

Mike, as always your scientific approach to the problem is
intriguing, but not one in which I recognize my own auteurism. I fear
that the thing I'm looking for is exactly what you summed up a few
posts back as an "indescribable something" - I think you put it
better. I would only add that I've spent my life trying to
describe "it" as scientifically as I could. That said, there are
certain genres I love - they happen to be the same as yours - and I
am, on a purely sensuous level, more fond of color than camera
movement - I love Kubrick's use of color. But if you add up all the
things in your list that I might check off as matters of taste,
they'd still amount to about 50% of what I believe I'm responding to
in a film I admire, with the other 50% being the overall form,
ineffable as that may be - the first 50% is not a suficient reason
for proclaiming someone an auteur (or a cineaste, as I'd say today),
although they may be reasons for me to watch a lot of shit. I am even
quite comfortable repsonding positively to work incorporating
elements repugnant to me - I have been seeing a lot of serial killer
films lately, and they generally disgust me - or films where
the "inferred author" seems to me ro be a repellant human being.

One thing that has now changed the equation a bit, re: the human
being behind the film, is DVD commentaries, which I listen to. I
would have given Hostel points for certain things, until I heard the
cackling asshole who made it on the DVD commentary, and since then I
wonder if I got it wrong. (I'm told a lot of wghat's good was added
to the script by Tarantino. Still...) But I remember meeting the
author of The Blue Iguana for a presskit interview and finding him
terribly obnoxious -not a bad guy, just obnoxious. I still watch his
films. I think he "has something." And I suspect his unfortunate
personality has kept him from making a name for himself in the
businss. It isn't what I watch his films for, however.







Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:25 pm

hotlove666
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Message #39933 of 48868 |
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Dan Sallitt's post is extremely interesting! The differences between people's opinions are fascinating. I've been enjoying ALL the comments on Kubrick, from...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Aug 23, 2006
6:00 pm

Hats off to Mike's and Dan's thoughtful posts. A short answer to Dan: I don't attempt to construct a personality for an auteur. I'm looking for something else....
hotlove666
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Aug 23, 2006
6:39 pm

... I'm not talking about real-life personality - I have only a passing interest in that. (Sarris wrote a very good article on the relationship of real-life...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 23, 2006
7:55 pm

... As you speak of it, it still resolves into some version of "the little man behind the curtain" - "lip-smacking" etc. I'm not interested in the little man,...
hotlove666
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Aug 23, 2006
8:56 pm

... I quite like "b. monkey" which the Weinsyteins did their level best to bury. Rupert Everett longed to play international boytoy/drug addict Denham Fouts ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 23, 2006
9:26 pm

... Well I think BK is near his very best film but I wouldn't call it "entertaining" in the acepted sense. I rememebr admiring (more than liking) "Paths of ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Aug 23, 2006
7:48 pm

Let me add that inferring an author - like inferring an audience, or a critical consensus (based on reading maybe 8 of the reviews appearing on a film in a ...
hotlove666
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Aug 23, 2006
9:14 pm

... enthusiasts who've seen his films multiple times, to the Kubrick- haters who can't stand him. ALL of these posts are welcome, IMHO. ... we might all learn...
jpcoursodon
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Aug 23, 2006
9:16 pm

Let me self-servingly suggest people google Full Metal Jacket Bill Krohn for my piece (referred to by JR in In Dreams Come Responsibilities) for a somewhat...
hotlove666
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Aug 23, 2006
9:49 pm

... that I have, not only construct a different Kubrick-pattern, but also lack a slot in their Kubrick-pattern to help them identify the traits that look...
BklynMagus
cinebklyn
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Aug 23, 2006
9:18 pm

1) Both Dan Sallitt and Bill Krohn are saying that I'm leaving out the most important things in filmmaking, with my talk of visual style, camera movement,...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Aug 23, 2006
11:11 pm

... important things in filmmaking, with my talk of visual style, camera movement, characterization, etc. ... Film is still a mysterious art form. We all have...
hotlove666
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Aug 24, 2006
3:00 am

... No, I must repeat: I don't care what Kubrick the human being was doing when he filmed that scene. I can't reconcile what you're saying with your other...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 24, 2006
3:39 am

... called ... BL is emotional because it makes me sad, and because it portrays a wide range of human emotions, often in ways that I feel, as a spectator, ...
hotlove666
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Aug 24, 2006
5:16 am

... No, I didn't want to suggest that. What I wanted to urge is that you devote your energy to analyzing the things about movies that make them good or bad...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 26, 2006
2:12 am

Am going to go out on a limb. 1) The best thing about such Max Ophuls films as "La Ronde" and "Lola Montes" are the camera movements. Watching the camera move...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Aug 23, 2006
11:21 pm

... and "Lola Montes" are the camera movements. Watching the camera move in these films is an awesome, totally rich experience. ... the camera movements in...
jpcoursodon
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Aug 24, 2006
12:08 am

... centrally interested in. But not all precincts are in yet... I can say that I am centrally interested in how a director uses various elements of mise en...
Brian Dauth
cinebklyn
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Aug 24, 2006
5:54 pm

... I guess my answer to this will also serve as my answer to the "science" thread.... I acknowledge the inevitability of personality getting into people's ...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 26, 2006
1:58 am

... While it might be not be the goal of criticism, personality does enter criticism and plays a crucial role. What is needed is a concept of best practice...
Brian Charles Dauth
cinebklyn
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Aug 28, 2006
3:46 am

... Yes, I agree. But that's not the interesting part to me: I prefer to acknowledge the subjectivity as a way of drawing a perimeter around it, to focus...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 28, 2006
11:56 pm

... Agreed. I think I can recognize why people might view Kubrick as aloof. I just do not feel that way myself. ... I think so, yes. The art product has not...
Brian Charles Dauth
cinebklyn
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Aug 29, 2006
1:23 am

... mostly stay on the same single concept; and the scenes seem stretched out, so I feel that I'm getting a lot of the same thing over a long period of time. ...
BklynMagus
cinebklyn
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Aug 23, 2006
5:27 pm
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