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Off with their heads! (was: NEW American Cinema)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #24161 of 48868 |
Re: Off with their heads! (was: NEW American Cinema)


Thanks to Bill and jpcoursodon for the comments... and thanks to Fred
for correcting me on Brakhage.

First of all, I wouldn't actually call the new book "American Cinema:
Toward the New Millennium". It would be "American Cinema after 1962:
What the fuck happened to US?"

I have seen Orson Welles' "Lady from Shanghai" twice this weekend
(both on 35mm) and thought about how impossible it was to explain how
far below Welles, Hitchcock, Cukor, Minelli and Sirk the Hollywood
cinema has fallen. What is called "Independent Cinema" doesn't give
much hope either. And yes, I'm making these judgements based on my
aesthetic values; don't know how I would write anything based on
someone else's. Sarris was aware that some directors' films worked on
a formal level and some not, and he seemed to like both, with a bias
towards the former. My "bias" is stronger than his and I do not think
that Preston Sturges (a great comedian) should be evaluated in the
same pages with a real artist such as George Cukor.

Even Michael Mann or David Fincher, although I have huge respect for
their cinema, cannot even come close to what was achieved almost
ordinarily by Hollywood in the 50's. Just take some of the films of
the year 1958: "Tarnished Angels", "Vertigo", "Man of the
West", "Some Came Running", "Gigi", "Bonjour Tristesse", "Wind across
the Everglades", "Bitter Victory", "Touch of Evil".
Which director on your list made any films even comparable to these
in terms of beauty?

From the list of directors you sent, I could add David Lynch to "Less
than Meets the Eye"; Brian de Palma and Paul Thomas Anderson
to "Lightly Likable" and Farrelly Brothers to "Make Way for the
Clowns". I'm curious about Abel Ferrara since Tag Gallagher praises
him so much.

I haven't seen the films of some people you mentioned. For the ones I
have seen, I mostly enjoyed watching their films but none of them
gave me pleasures that can be compared to what I get from "Lady from
Shanghai". They weigh so little compared to "Lady from Shanghai", or
even (a standard much below that) "Collateral", that I don't see any
reason to talk about them. Remember that we are adding to Sarris so
if you are planning to add someone in one of his categories, you
should be able to compare the new addition with the old ones in the
same category.

Zach proposes Monte Hellman and Blake Edwards for the "Pantheon". I
love both of them, especially Edwards, but what happens when you
compare them to Orson Welles for example? (Edwards is listed under a
very good category in Sarris' book)

By the way, I believe I have one more addition to the
category "Expressive Esoterica": Mike Figgis. I liked all of his
films when they came out and saw "Miss Julie" on DVD last year.
Assuming "Miss Julie" is not an anomaly, he has one of the most
cinematic eyes around. I love the poetry he can make just by playing
with the focus. Too bad I haven't seen anything he made after that.

Yoel






Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:50 am

ymeranda
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Message #24161 of 48868 |
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If Sarris had applied the same rigorous (and highly idiosyncratic) standards Yoel suggests, his book would have been a very slim volume indeed. Whereas one of...
jpcoursodon
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Mar 14, 2005
4:15 pm

Thanks to Bill and jpcoursodon for the comments... and thanks to Fred for correcting me on Brakhage. First of all, I wouldn't actually call the new book...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda
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Mar 15, 2005
4:50 am

... Yoel, keep in mind the films you've just mentioned are the cream of the crop--hardly representative of things "achieved almost ordinarily by Hollywood in...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Mar 15, 2005
6:32 am

Zach, and others, I'm suddenly overwhelmed with work for the next week until leaving town, for a while, and the discussion is once again just too fast for me...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 15, 2005
7:42 am

... How many films of the 70s or 80s remade ... Third ... house ... return ... her ... of "The ... about ... loves ... the ... The meaning of a film was...
hotlove666
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Mar 15, 2005
8:44 am

... Or Vampyr and A Corner In Wheat. Or Side/Walk/Shuttle and 2001 he he (OK a delicious parody at the end) -Sam...
samfilms2003
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Mar 15, 2005
5:43 pm

... He ... he ... he ... I know how you mean this of course. Still, I wonder if one can say of anyone that they had "no life" even if it was just a life...
Blake Lucas
blakelucaslu...
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Mar 16, 2005
2:32 am

... Well, I find this kind of statement annoying. Everybody has a life. What do you mean, "Hitchcock had no life"? What's your definition of having a life? Do...
jpcoursodon
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Mar 16, 2005
3:23 am

... The popularization of the phrase, "Get a life," from which I think the idea of "having no life" evolved, dates to a 1987 "Saturday Night Live" episode that...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 16, 2005
4:05 am

... "...it does seem to me to be generally good advice to artists, filmmakers, and everyone else, that in addition to looking at flickering images on the...
Richard Modiano
tharpa2002
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Mar 16, 2005
5:49 am

... looking at ... should ... This ... human ... When I got around to answering the above statement about Hitchcock, I had forgotten this started with your...
Blake Lucas
blakelucaslu...
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Mar 16, 2005
5:51 am

I see a very deep sense of life, ... Birds, ... a ... washy, ... Just to clarify the ninth choice on that list, since it may not be completely obvious--I'm...
Blake Lucas
blakelucaslu...
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Mar 16, 2005
6:03 am

... I'm glad you mentioned this extraordinary film. I wonder if anyone has really dealt with the affinities between a certain strain of "ethnographic" films...
Matt Teichman
bufordrat
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Mar 15, 2005
2:00 pm

... I just discovered today that as a library staff member, I can check out 16mm prints from my school's suprisingly kickass collection. I'm going to check out...
Josh Mabe
brack_28
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Mar 15, 2005
5:44 pm

... Sounds like you're in for a heavenly semester. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the Birdwhistell once you watch it. -Matt...
Matt Teichman
bufordrat
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Mar 15, 2005
9:19 pm

... Fred, I don't want to burden you, but I simply want to reiterate a sentiment: If you were to see, say, THE KILLING OF A CHINESE BOOKIE (or FACES) or NEW...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Mar 15, 2005
2:05 pm

Zach Campbell wrote: If you were to see, say, THE KILLING OF A CHINESE BOOKIE ... I need to see the Ferrara, I acknowledge. I have seen "Faces," once, when it...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 15, 2005
3:37 pm

... filmmaker; ... as I ... many of ... and ... Actually, I was thinking "the anxiety of influence," which is considerably less idealistic as a theory than...
hotlove666
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Mar 15, 2005
5:08 pm

... FACES is the Cassavetes I've seen most recently (and only once--on the rather pristine box set DVD); I wouldn't say it represents the pinnacle of his art,...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Mar 15, 2005
10:55 pm

... I beg to differ! Have you seen "Opening Night" or "Love Streams" lately? ... And when he had the money his mise en scene altered. Consider "Gloria." it's a...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Mar 15, 2005
11:11 pm

... You've sold me, Zach: Cassavetes, Pantheon. And while I'm remembering: Bogdanovich, Far Side....
hotlove666
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Mar 15, 2005
11:20 pm

... at ... extended ... implications ... Chet ... This is one of the things that appeals to me most about Cassavetes' films, and it's why I believe Sarah's...
Matthew Clayfield
mclayf00
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Mar 16, 2005
1:09 am

In reply to Zach on Cassavetes and FACES, I would concur that Cassavetes is indeed a film stylist and interested in film form, contrary to both some of what...
Charles Leary
cw_leary
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Mar 16, 2005
1:14 am

Zach, Actually, that was a really good defense. I'm left with the questions of what I'll see if I see the film again, and also whether what you describe, which...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Mar 16, 2005
1:59 am

... Chicago, ... more ... Fred - Try Opening Night for your next "taste." It's about theatre and life, it has a ghost, it has Rowlands and Cassavetes...you...
hotlove666
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Mar 16, 2005
4:48 pm

Zach, This is a really good piece on Cassavetes. In particular, your point about the style of performance, which might be called "realism but not really," was...
Peter Henne
peterhenne
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Mar 16, 2005
7:15 pm

... I find an inky, balanced beauty to the range of black and white in the compositions of "Faces." In most of Cassavetes' films, he makes a discontinuous...
hotlove666
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Mar 16, 2005
7:25 pm

... And one of the special features on the Criterion edition of "Faces" is a short featurette in which Al Ruban discusses lighting, film stock and other...
Matthew Clayfield
mclayf00
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Mar 16, 2005
10:21 pm

Peter, Charles, and David ... I just checked out OPENING NIGHT this afternoon (again: box set DVD, those transfers are sparkling). I had never seen the film...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Mar 17, 2005
1:53 am

... A fascinating work. I'd ... Tw things to keep in mind 1) This is Joan Blondell's last film. Therefore in historical terms it is EPIC. 2) The film is among...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Mar 17, 2005
6:20 am
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