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Sallitt on not showing (Was: OT: Sade)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #20722 of 48933 |
Re: Sallitt on not showing


This is matter of choice. I don't think that the issue should be
showing vs. not showing, but rather: "Where does the film-maker
stands between what he films and the viewer?". The distances set
between the subject filmed, the subject filming and the subject
spectator, as pointed out by Daney his re: Kapo piece. We'll always
come back here, to the "moral" issue of any shot. Each cineaste
performs a cutting through the real, which requires the
understanding of the necessity of each selection. Rivette
wrote: "There are things that must be approached with fear and
trembling. Death is such a thing and how could someone film such a
mysterious thing without the feeling of being an impostor?". He
later expressed his own uneasiness about the sexual act as a film
subject. Pornography shows its ugly face when this thought ("Why do
I show that?") is not restored in the film, when the gratuitous
gesture denies the necessity, when there is no fear nor trembling.

As I already pointed out in an earlier related thread, there is a
filthy shot in Reservoir's Dog, which precisely stands as a perfect
counter-example of such moral position: when Tarantino pans from the
torture ear scene to show the ceiling/wall (I can't remember) when
the guy he still yelling, as if T. was saying: "Hey folks, I can't
show that! That's disgusting, that's immoral!". This precaution is
an odious fake, since T. had obviously a great time showing the
blood. You can either choose to show it or not to show it, but be
straight with it.

As for Fuller, it seems to me that he exemplary deals head-on with
that scene. The issue here relies precisely in the gaze on horror,
and not in the horror itself. Bronson looking at Steiger looking at
Meeker. And I think that the close-up of Meeker's head, smeared with
blood, swear, dust and fear is an unequaled representation of
horror. There was nothing more to show. The indirect gaze is not a
lesser evil; it's the very subject of the scene.








Sun Jan 9, 2005 4:38 pm

jaloysius56
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Message #20722 of 48933 |
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... Obviously I need to rethink and rephrase what I'm trying to say. Neither of these examples bothers me. In the case of THE BIG COMBO, you could almost say...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Jan 9, 2005
3:15 pm

This is matter of choice. I don't think that the issue should be showing vs. not showing, but rather: "Where does the film-maker stands between what he films...
Maxime Renaudin
jaloysius56
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Jan 9, 2005
4:38 pm

Filmmakers have a similar choice to glamorize/ not glamorize. In "X2: X-Men United" there are nasty government guards who imprison and mis-treat gallant Sir...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Jan 9, 2005
5:42 pm

... Hmm. Could it be that an uncontroversial example of what you're talking about is to be found in a film like Gianni Amelio's THE WAY WE LAUGHED, where the...
ebiri@...
bilge_ebiri
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Jan 9, 2005
7:12 pm

... This kind of narrative gimmick certainly doesn't bother me. I really need to back away from the showing/not-showing thing and find some other way of ...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Jan 9, 2005
8:19 pm

... Filmmakers often ... prevent ... But isn't that what you objected to about the rape scene in Frenzy, the fact that it might turn people on?...
hotlove666
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Jan 9, 2005
7:26 pm

... Preminger's "Anatomy of a Murder" pivots on his refusal to show either the rape OR the murder that precipitated it. It's quite a provocative "structuring ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Jan 9, 2005
7:54 pm

... Well, if he had shown any part of the rape or murder, there was no film. So OP didn't really have a choice....
jpcoursodon
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Jan 9, 2005
8:04 pm

... Oh yes he did! You're forgetting the falshback that lies in "Stage Fright." An entirely different film could have been made out of "Anatomy of a Murder"...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Jan 9, 2005
8:21 pm

... NO! That was not an option for this particular film. We must be left in doubt to the end and beyond. A lying flashback would resolve the doubt. When I...
jpcoursodon
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Jan 9, 2005
9:31 pm

Actually Billy Strayhorn played the piano for Stewart, at least that very beautiful piece in the scene in which Stewart, O'Connell, and Arden wait for the jury...
Chris Fujiwara
chris_fujiwara
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Jan 10, 2005
4:27 am

... that ... Story. Well of course Strayhorn was Ellington's alter ego, and did sound exactly like him in those few wonderful two-piano recordings they did...
jpcoursodon
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Jan 10, 2005
4:39 am

... to ... Frenzy, ... There is no proper way of showing rape on screen. No matter how you film it, there will be two opposed types of responses, corresponding...
jpcoursodon
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Jan 9, 2005
7:54 pm

... And the much greater number of people with rape fantasies. ... I don't agree with this position. A certain kind of typage does more to obscure personality...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Jan 9, 2005
9:35 pm

... I'm trying not to pile error upon error here, and get back to my reactions. In the FRENZY scene, I feel as if Hitch miscalculated, or something, and wound...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Jan 9, 2005
9:32 pm

... something, and ... porn, ... complicating ... that the murder ... wished on ... elaborated ... One thing that complicates the Torn Curtain murder is that...
hotlove666
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Jan 9, 2005
11:51 pm

... You, of course, mean Barry Foster - unless Hitch thought of going to Australia like Michael Powell in THEY'RE A WEID MOB? Tony Williams....
peckinpah20012000
peckinpah200...
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Jan 10, 2005
12:02 am

... Pasolini, ... in its ... I'm ... on is a ... slack, for ... forbids a ... Maybe my unfamiliarity with certain types of porn is showing here, but I don't...
ebiri@...
bilge_ebiri
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Jan 10, 2005
4:51 am

... Speaking of which, I was just refreshing my memory by fast-forwarding thru a tape I picked up of Henry and June - now that's pornography!...
hotlove666
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Jan 10, 2005
6:48 am

... Well, he always did know how to stage a sex scene - a lot of directors just fuddle it up - I was re-watching some Argento recently and there's a brief and...
Saul Symonds
asitdid
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Jan 10, 2005
7:02 am

... Mainstream porn might involve lots of close-up, (or meat-shots), mainly because uncreative directors can't think of what else to do with their camera. A...
Saul Symonds
asitdid
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Jan 10, 2005
7:15 am

... foregrounding ... M....
hotlove666
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Jan 9, 2005
2:12 am

Dan, the reason I asked is because I've been mulling over this issue since my first year in film school when I first saw HIROSHIMA MON AMOUR. That's certainly...
LiLiPUT1@...
scil1973
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Jan 9, 2005
7:19 pm

... I dunno. Art tends to thrive on complexity, on expressing multiple attitudes toward things. But this obviously collides with almost any political agenda...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Jan 9, 2005
8:32 pm

It's "Throw at'em" pornography. For Verhoeven, spectacle IS pornography, spectacle equals exploitation. If one is very well educated and with indisputable...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier
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Jan 10, 2005
2:33 pm

Was Bill kidding or just mixing everything? Henry and June is a Philip Kaufman film, and a very bad one, and not a bit similar to Verhoeven's mise-en-scene...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier
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Jan 10, 2005
2:38 pm

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:36:22 -0200, Ruy Gardnier ... Rivette dismissed John Woo's "Face/Off" as pornography in the same interview in which he praises...
Jonathan Takagi
jontakagi
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Jan 10, 2005
6:33 pm

... Actually, Rivette was plenty withering, but didn't say that either of these directors were unable to direct: "For example, Hou Hsiao-hsien really irritates...
Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
michaelkerpan
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Jan 10, 2005
6:46 pm

Don't ask Rivette, he's got it all wrong ... From: "Michael E. Kerpan, Jr." <kerpan@...>...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier
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Jan 10, 2005
7:11 pm

... Well I must say, I don't understand his reference to "politically correct" in connection with HHH at all. The other slaps are value judgments...
Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
michaelkerpan
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Jan 10, 2005
7:33 pm
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