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Reply Message #19269 of 48979 |
Re: top tens


--- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, ebiri@a... wrote:

> For the record, I'm 31, and I'm pretty sure the
> particular "demographic" SIDEWAYS is being accused of targeting is
> quite older than me. And my problem with your post wasn't ageism,
> although ageism isn't a particularly nice -ism. My problem is this
> propensity (we all do it, myself included) to sublimate our contempt
> for a particular group into the criticism of the film itself.
> SIDEWAYS as a film deserves to be judged on its own terms. Not on
> whether you or I like balding middle-aged critics, or tortoiseshell-
> eyeglass-wearing hipsters, or 350-pound comicbook geeks, or ageing
> auteurists still raging about unjustly neglected Red Scare flicks by
> has-been hacks. (See how easy it is to be snidely dismissive?)
>
> -Bilge

This reminds me of the LOST IN TRANSLATION debate last year and me speculating
aloud
as to which kind of viewers fell for that crap. So for my own benefit, this
deserves further
unpacking. I'll play the -ism side for the sake of devil's advocate. Because
the problems
that Gabe identifies in SIDEWAYS are problems I see too, what I described as a
"Starbucks/
Barnes and Noble aesthetic". Because I think the reasons why this movie appeals
to people
is not unlike the way Starbucks or Barnes and Noble appeal to people -- it's the
product
branded as a lifestyle. As with LOST IN TRANSLATION, the film presents not just
a story
but a way of life, one that has its share of pleasing idyllic epicurean
qualities.

But before you rail at me for indulging in extra-cinematic generalities and not
engaging in
the film for its qualities as a film in itself, let me propose that the way the
film is
constructed supports my argument, in how it invites us to experience the space
of
pleasure it has mapped out. In having us experience this weeklong roadtrip, the
film is
brilliant at pingponging us back and forth between Giamatti and Hayden Church's
complementary subjectivities -- we share Hayden Church's wide-eyed, bedazzled
admiration of Giamatti's bona fide, lingo-slanging wine expertise, as well as
his happy go
lucky enjoyment of all that happens. This viewpoint alternates with Giamatti's
gentle
disbelief at his companion's lasciviousness, teamed up with his own gnawing
sense of
middle class middlebrow inadequacy. This film, like other Payne films, is very
clever at
playing up and down middle class values and self-image, alternately criticizing
and
congratulating it. The scene in the tasting room of the large outlet winery is a
brilliant
example of this, where Giamatti's intellectual approach to wine falls apart like
a snobbish
facade and he's the one acting like a pathetic slob guzzling a spittoonful of
wine amidst a
horde of tourists who have far worse taste than he. Payne's position in the
film in regards
to his characters is slippery -- there's one moment at the end of a montage with
the four
principals picnicking in a vineyard underneat a tree with the evening sun
setting them all
aglow -- an image practically stolen from a Mondavi commercial. Is Payne
sending up this
image in all its cliched banality, or is he celebrating it as a rare and
fleeting moment of
middle class bliss shored up against an encroaching sea of suburban chaos and
fear? For
one to accept the latter, one has to accept that middle class life is
fundamentally pathetic,
eliciting a feeling of simultaneous sympathy and disdain consistent to all his
work thus far.
I happen to think this feeling appeals to a lot of viewers -- myself included.
What I
wonder about is whether this is really laudable, because ultimately I think
Payne's method
of seduction, playing both sides, the loathing and loving of petty
connoissuership and
middle class values, ultimately keeps us contentedly in the middle, consuming
his
product. Even if Giamatti and Virginia Madsen do get together in the end, what
really has
changed? He's just become a more well-adjusted consumer, having hooked up with
someone who seems the wet dream embodiment of petty middle class male values, as
Gabe has already described. The Virginia Madsen character is the most obvious
sign of
Payne's strategy of middle class seduction.

Anyway, my point is that instead of repressing our own impulse to visualize how
the film
appeals to other audiences in order to justify how it doesn't appeal to us, I
say we should
exercise our imaginations all the more fervently in ascertaining who these
suckers might
be -- because inevitably they may be us. If we really want to implicate a film
and its
foolish audience, we must risk implicating ourselves. Somewhere in Gabe's
diatribe
against the SIDEWAYS crowd is a critical autobiography that describes him, as
well as
everyone. This is something Serge Daney understood.

The awful truth is that films are marketed to audiences, and that marketing has
its role in
every step of production and beforehand, from the moment the writer pitches the
project
and who it might appeal to. So i think it's a bit disingenuous to think that
the things Gabe
and I are talking about are things that are off-base in what a film is up to,
those very
terms by which you insist the film deserves to be judged. But you're right in
that for us to
be effective at doing this, we have to own up to our own values and subject them
to as
much scrutiny as we are to the phantom audience we've identified.






Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:29 am

alsolikelife
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Message #19269 of 48979 |
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... For the record, I'm 31, and I'm pretty sure the particular "demographic" SIDEWAYS is being accused of targeting is quite older than me. And my problem with...
ebiri@...
bilge_ebiri
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Dec 21, 2004
1:50 am

... This reminds me of the LOST IN TRANSLATION debate last year and me speculating aloud as to which kind of viewers fell for that crap. So for my own...
Kevin Lee
alsolikelife
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Dec 21, 2004
5:29 am

... people -- it's the product ... presents not just a story ... epicurean qualities. ... generalities and not engaging in ... that the way the film is ... ...
ebiri@...
bilge_ebiri
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Dec 21, 2004
9:14 am

... I agree! I read Kevin's post hoping there weren't major spoilers lurking, since I haven't caught up with SIDEWAYS yet but the topic interests me. Kevin,...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Dec 21, 2004
1:47 pm

... acknowledging ... Thanks for making me feel less sheepish about comparing James Brooks to Leo McCarey! I see what you mean though. But I don't think Ford...
Kevin Lee
alsolikelife
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Dec 21, 2004
8:23 pm

... I liked SIDEWAYS, but I must admit I don't see that Madsen's performance was so special. She didn't do anything bad, but I didn't think it was a very...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Dec 21, 2004
4:01 am

... Well she's had a child by Antonio Sabato Jr. so you do the math. She's quite pretty in person and very smart. Got into a big idscussion of Tom Hulce with...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Dec 20, 2004
11:42 pm

... Actually, that's what I heard. Michael's the lesbian....
hotlove666
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Dec 20, 2004
11:57 pm

... I like your suggestion though I would limit it to either just three or better yet, the real number of films that should be added to the best of all time...
Elizabeth Nolan
eanmdphd
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Dec 21, 2004
12:53 am

... three or ... best ... list, ... ought to ... worthy ... I don't have an all-time list (I'm so against lists) but if I did I don't see anything in 2004 that...
jpcoursodon
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Dec 21, 2004
1:46 am

I wonder if fashion is the proper term here. I sometimes think that film is something of a soft science, trying to find the best expression of itself. In a...
Elizabeth Anne Nolan
eanmdphd
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Dec 21, 2004
6:26 am

... interpretations due to ... completely ... ***** Well, unless a critic's involvement with Cinema is downright monastic; unless he or she has nothing else...
Tom Sutpen
tasutpen
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Dec 21, 2004
7:15 am

... Sure, being able to articulate your reasons for ... It's been fun reading the Snicket reviews. Critics keep trying to explain in one paragraph what went...
hotlove666
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Dec 21, 2004
7:35 am

... A woman's bias is a fine thing to have! I think OASIS, CRIMSON GOLD, and VERA DRAKE are all very worthy films. (Haven't seen the Moodysson.) --Zach...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Dec 21, 2004
1:53 pm

I just enjoy making these lists and sending them out, if only for the very slim chance someone might read it and go out searching for H. Lee Waters or Warren ...
J. Mabe
brack_28
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Dec 21, 2004
1:52 am

... This is indeed great -- the best condensed narrative(s) since Maddin's HEART OF THE WORLD. ... I usually llike Murray's stuff, but I was not impressed with...
Gabe Klinger
gcklinger
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Dec 21, 2004
2:13 am

... I'm so fully into her that I even love her films backwards... as I learned two years ago at Views from the Avant Garde. ... Confessions of Babbette -Josh...
Josh Mabe
brack_28
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Dec 21, 2004
2:20 am

... She's a bit of an exception. Young people love Life Aquatic, it seems - it's just over-the-hill duds like Gabe that think it's "a mess."...
hotlove666
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Dec 21, 2004
7:14 am

I was going to wait until after the holidays to introduce myself, but I've been intoxicated by all the vigorous discussion. I've read the statement of purpose...
Fred Patton
fred_patton
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Dec 21, 2004
6:32 pm

... Heheh! It looks as though we went to some of the same programs at NYVF. I actually didn't care for the entire Mike Kelley program, but I agree, watching...
acquarello2000
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Dec 21, 2004
2:22 am

... Where and when did you first see Warren's films? I first saw "Hall of Mirrors" at its premiere in 1966, Nick has a new film? I've got to keep up. ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Dec 21, 2004
4:23 am

... After about a decade with nothing, Dorsky has been comparatively prolific since the mid 1990's. Patrick Friel ****************************************** ...
programming
cfprogramming
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Dec 21, 2004
4:36 pm

... ***** Wait. Perhaps I'm reading this poorly. You're saying *millions* were invested in some Nan Goldin video piece? ... ***** All true. But the salient...
Tom Sutpen
tasutpen
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Dec 21, 2004
6:13 am

Hi Tom. Welcome to the list. ... *millions* ... No, probably not. Maybe tens of thousands. ... almost ... Have you seen the Goldin piece? Or for that matter,...
Gabe Klinger
gcklinger
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Dec 21, 2004
7:15 pm

... If you're talking about TV critics or those who write for major daily newspapers or "mainstream" magazines (excluding, for example, the "Chicago Reader"),...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Dec 21, 2004
7:29 pm

... Our own Dan Sallitt used to review movies weekly for the LA Reader. More than once, I heard a civilian stumbling out of a film he had sent them to moaning,...
hotlove666
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Dec 21, 2004
7:45 pm

... these ... tastes ... The question of the proper role of the "critic" has a long history in drama (or perhaps meta-drama). Certainly Moliere tackled the...
Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
michaelkerpan
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Dec 21, 2004
8:14 pm

... Don't forget "overworked." While you're no spring chicken, Gabe, you still have more physical stamina than Roger Ebert. Can you imagine seeing all the...
hotlove666
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Dec 21, 2004
7:36 pm

... What were you thinking of in particular in relation to this? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Dec 21, 2004
8:33 pm

... - I enjoy his column in the Weekly - and have developed a habit of not taking his advice on films, after seeing what he picks and poops on over the long ...
hotlove666
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Dec 22, 2004
12:46 am
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