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acting '04   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #19066 of 48868 |
Re: acting '04 (A Talking Picture, politics and films)


I have seen A Talking Picture in Anthology Today. I should say that I
had never seen an Oliveira film before and the posts here helped me a
lot with my understanding of it so thanks to everyone.

First of all, I do not understand how people come to any conclusions
about Oliveira's political beliefs from a film that is so complicated
in every way. The historical stories told in the film are so varied
and so unrelated on the surface that I find it impossible to even
state that the film is about terrorism or even the occident. The long
scene about the opening of the Suez Canal is one example of a story
that is totally unrelated to terrorism (at least the connection is
not made in the film); the story about the Goddess Athena and
everything that happens in Istanbul (my home town, and I like the
fact that it is the only city the little girl finds "beautiful") are
other examples.
I think there is only one common theme to almost all the stories:
Civilization, in general, has accomplished great things but many
particular civilizations that seemed to be stable in the past are in
ruins now and if they are not in ruins, they have changed
drastically, mostly as a result of wars (and wars are in the human
nature so this trend is going to go on forever). Whether terrorism
or "the war against terrorism" are justified is only indirectly
related to this and I think Oliveira uses it as his backdrop only
because that is the main "war" that is happening in the world today.

In any case, there are so many other things going on in the film in
terms of content. The advances by the famous actor in Egypt, by the
captain to every female being in the ship and the mother's
relationship with the daughter are totally outside the context of
terrorism. I think Oliveira's main subject (or rather, his starting
point) is the personal struggles of individuals who are forced to
face the history (and therefore, in some way, their destinies) that
they cannot control.
I don't think he tries to make any political points. I do believe
that he finds that starting point very inspiring.

Also, I agree with Ruy Gardnier when he says (in post #19004) that it
is impossible to treat the acting as realistic in the film. It seemed
very distanced and totally unbelievable and I don't understand how
people don't think it is Oliveira's choice, even if it is more
intuitive than conscious. It also goes with Fred's point (post
#18972) when he says that there is not much difference between the
Suez Canal paintings and the scenery of pyramids. The film is very
artifical and I think it is so obvious that it is hard to dismiss it
as Oliveira's mistake, rather than seeing it as his choice.
If you have any doubts about the conscious artificiality of the film
just take a look again at the repeated sequence of shots near the end
that Patrick Ciccone talks about (post #18997) where the mother and
the girl run back and forth. It would have never happened in a film
that tries to involve its viewers.

The fact that we cannot identify much with characters (especially, in
the case of Malkovich, who is definitely a repulsive personality in
my - and I believe Oliveira's - terms) in this artificiality also
goes with my point that there is no way of understanding Oliveira's
position from the film. Who knows whether he agrees with the
characters and whether he would tell the stories of the past the way
the characters would?

I thought one of the most beautiful points in the film was the
entrance of the famous actor in Cairo. The tone of his voice totally
changes the way we experience the pyramids that we had been looking
at for a while. Thanks to David for saying that "Shifts in tone,
especially as the relate to performers, are a constant in Oliviera."
(post #19016).

I don't know what to make of the "entrance" of the bomb but the shot
where everybody starts running around in a chaotic way is a first in
the film and I think it's very very beautiful. I find the whole shift
in the film very interesting although I can't really explain why.

There is a formal beauty in the film, which is apparent from the
first shot which is the most beautiful shot I have seen for a while,
but the beauty comes mostly from the way the images are interrelated
and not necessarily from the beauty of any individual images. I have
a personal admiration for the filmmakers who achive that and I think
that is why Bresson and Rossellini are my favorite narrative
directors.
I should see many many more Oliveiras from now on.

I think people who liked the film would be happy to hear that it will
be shown one extra week in Anthology thanks to the demand.

Yoel






Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:45 am

ymeranda
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Message #19066 of 48868 |
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... see ... OK - I'll try it when it comes out on DVD....
hotlove666
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Dec 17, 2004
7:15 pm

I have seen A Talking Picture in Anthology Today. I should say that I had never seen an Oliveira film before and the posts here helped me a lot with my...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda
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Dec 17, 2004
6:45 am

... The story about Athena -- the protector of Athens is gone -- seems to imply the West is unprotected. In Istanbul the film addresses the conversion of Hagia...
Paul Gallagher
pcg
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Dec 17, 2004
8:11 am

... After "addressing" the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a mosque, the film "addresses" the fact that it became a museum under the secularizing Attaturk....
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Dec 17, 2004
2:46 pm

... moron ... I haven't won anybody over with my arguments, so I'll drop my case. I'll point out, as topics for further research, that Umberto Eco has written...
Paul Gallagher
pcg
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Dec 18, 2004
1:49 am

From: "Paul Gallagher" <pgallagher4@...> ... Ruy Gardnier. I may be misunderstanding Oliveira's statement: "Agora, são os muçulmanos que querem...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier
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Dec 18, 2004
5:19 pm

... I take Gabe's command to be playful -- no one really expects ... But that's no mere woman. That's Moon So-freakin'-Ri! It's not like he's asking you to ...
Kevin Lee
alsolikelife
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Dec 16, 2004
1:52 am

... Sorry I didn't get to this a little more promptly, but things have been busy. You know how it is. I have to say that I don't quite agree with this. A cut...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Dec 16, 2004
9:09 pm

... wrote: I think that--from Godard to ... Interesting that you include Bresson, Zach. I'm not sure what you say is true in that case....
hotlove666
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Dec 16, 2004
10:08 pm

... I think it's true! In the interest of breadth I deliberately included Bresson's work for his unconventional direction of actors. Their acting-as-acting is...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Dec 16, 2004
11:03 pm

... Performance is an important element of ... Actually, I wasn't discounting the actors, just saying that they are accorded no more importance than the...
hotlove666
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Dec 17, 2004
5:22 am

... True -- but I wasn't trying to argue that the actors in Bresson are more important than the objects, or that Bresson doesn't do fascinating things with...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82
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Dec 17, 2004
1:20 pm

... I don't think I'd say this. Look how much Bresson sweats over getting a certain acting style. He's quite the ideologue about it - feels strongly that the...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Dec 17, 2004
2:15 pm

... Ozu, perhaps. Have teapots and smokestacks ever been so eloquent? MEK...
Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
michaelkerpan
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Dec 17, 2004
2:47 pm

... wrote: . ... True. Also Godard's symphony of objects "2 ou 3 choses que je sais d'elle" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Dec 17, 2004
2:53 pm

Hmmm... come to think of it, this may be Godard's most Bressonian film (in the treatment of actors as well as objects)...
Kevin Lee
alsolikelife
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Dec 17, 2004
4:52 pm

Isn't it arbitrary to distinguish between object-oriented directors and actor-oriented ones? And, ultimately, between objects and actors? In the camera gaze,...
jpcoursodon
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Dec 17, 2004
3:53 pm

... Is Rita Hayworth (random ... Ah but she's an object "en plus" because she can sing, dance and interact with Ford, MacCready, et. al. Can't say the same of...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Dec 17, 2004
4:11 pm

... Well, yeah, because looking at an object is more about the looking and the associated brain activity than about the object itself. ... That's where Zach...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Dec 17, 2004
4:28 pm

... He ... after ... I agree. I should have put "dehumanize" between quotes. What I meant was expressed by the parenthesis (rejection of naturalistic acting)....
jpcoursodon
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Dec 17, 2004
6:49 pm

... I don't either. I said he treats objects and actors as equally important parts of the larger whole that is the film - not that he films people as if they ...
hotlove666
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Dec 17, 2004
7:03 pm

... <kerpan@a...> wrote: "Ozu, perhaps. Have teapots and smokestacks ever been so eloquent?" And there is Mizoguchi who treats objects as negative space. ...
Richard Modiano
tharpa2002
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Dec 17, 2004
4:58 pm

Some of Bresson's characters seemed ferociously focussed on their mental goals (escaping from prison, Joan following her voices, etc). The acting style conveys...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Dec 17, 2004
8:59 pm

... I know, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to misuse the term. ;~} MEK...
Michael E. Kerpan, Jr.
michaelkerpan
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Dec 18, 2004
3:34 am

Brian De Palma often conveys to objects the role of animated characters. Never one will feel so afraid of a bucket as in CARRIE, or staring at some floating...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier
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Dec 18, 2004
6:19 pm

... characters. ... at some ... Hitchcock again. Cf. Godard's comparison of AH to Cezanne in Histoire (s) 4A - "Le controle de l'univers."...
hotlove666
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Dec 18, 2004
6:24 pm

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Interviews/Tashlin/tashlin_interview.htm...
hotlove666
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Dec 18, 2004
6:25 pm

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, Welles again comes to mind. Think of the sled in "Kane"; the seashell at the climax of "The Immortal Story"; the...
ptonguette@...
peter_tonguette
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Dec 19, 2004
1:38 am

... more than ... way of ... I wonder (I haven't been following this thread too closely) if anyone has mentioned Tarkovsky's fascination for objects and empty ...
jpcoursodon
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Dec 17, 2004
3:09 pm

Re Ozu, Tarkovsky; (or Dorsky !!) sometimes, if a filmmaker is good, everything on the screen can perform, talk, even sing... -Sam Wells...
samfilms2003
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Dec 17, 2004
4:26 pm
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