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Return of the Repressed   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1889 of 48868 |
Re: [a_film_by] Re: Return of the Repressed ( Meaning in film)



Patrick Ciccone wrote:

> the
> underlying critical method from Bazin to Rohmer and Godard and
> Rivette and afterward to Sarris is that cinematic form creates
> meaning on a director-by-director basis. Maybe this is not a new
> idea or interprestaion but the depth to which Cahiers or Sarris and
> their successors grasped upon this idea and used it to explain the
> film and careers of their charished directors seems to me a crucial
> shift, or at least evolution.


It was certainly a shift if, like most everyone, all one had been
exposed to was writing in the daily newspaper. And equally in Europe,
"normal" people don't sit around contemplating movie auteurs and the
magic of god-cinema. But I have already cited the June 1930 number of
La Revue du Cinema in which the editors did exactly the things you cite.
And that was their "politique," which did not change much until the mid
60s. (They even used the same techniques and vocabularly and critical
"methods" to try to market Rossellini in 1954 as they had for Vidor in
1930. For me Rohmer is the greatest writer on Rossellini, and no one
was writing about Rossellini in 1930, but without those people in 1930
Rohmer would not have written the way he did.) It's a little unfair to
cite four of the history's great critics (but in another sense they
weren't "critics" at all, more like poets singing of their loves)
against the inevitably less inspired writing of the 1930s. But these
four were all loyal children of the earlier generation which, in
essence, was the one that parented Cahiers and the New Wave.

> Godard's essay on THE WRONG MAN or
> Rivette's on BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. Again, maybe there are
> precedents.
>
Curious you should mention the Godard essay. I was a grad student at
NYU in 1969 and, at prof's request, read in class a translation I'd made
of that essay, and every cinema-studies student there was bowled over --
they'd never imagined anyone approaching a movie in that fashion.

I think for various reasons France in the early 50s offered great
opportunities for this sort of essaying, not only for such (until then)
rare extended analysis of scenes, but for Godard's paeons to Ray and
Sirk which were probably not too intelligible even to Cahiers' readers
at the time.

So there're no argument here that this was something "new." But that
begs the question of how new something has to be in order to be new.
The sort of analysis that I've been doing in French magazines, for
example, would have been impossible in the 1950s, but I'm standing on
Godard's shoulders, and he too has many feet and stands on many
shoulders. Yes, there are precedents.

>





Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:09 am

tagtagta
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Message #1889 of 48868 |
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... What ... feel ... I think I can answer these both at once. Of course, "approach" is way too vague, especially, as I said, I am deeply ignorant of pre-war ...
Patrick Ciccone
pwciccone
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Sep 10, 2003
8:58 pm

... It was certainly a shift if, like most everyone, all one had been exposed to was writing in the daily newspaper. And equally in Europe, "normal" people...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Sep 11, 2003
4:10 am

The only copy I own of Revue de cinema certainly looks like the yellow Cahiers, and also contains a group of articles on Hitchcock's films which they were...
hotlove666
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Sep 10, 2003
11:02 pm

... But you say that you're not familiar with pre-www2 writings, so how can you make these remarks until you are? I don't think Cahiers "obsessed" over these...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Sep 11, 2003
1:53 am

"Nothing novel in any of this. Had all be said/asked a zillion times before. The difference was that Foucault was addressing people who hadn't bothered to...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Sep 11, 2003
3:17 am

... can ... I don't recall saying that, but I won't claim any particular familiarity with film criticism. I'll look for the articles on Ford and the issue of...
Paul Gallagher
pcg
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Sep 11, 2003
9:28 am

... Don't know about Cukor. But Hawks was virtually an independent producer in the 30s (as were most of our "auteurs," by the way). I don't have references...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Sep 11, 2003
1:59 am

Cukor was never an independent. He was always on the edge, however, in that he had all sorts of frequent collaborators. I suspect he was shy of taking on the ...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47
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Sep 11, 2003
3:14 am

Tag Gallagher writes: "a deep, profound, widespread and all pervasive unfamiliarity with American movie criticism prior to ww2. Not to mention French or...
MG4273@...
nzkpzq
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Sep 11, 2003
1:03 pm

I'd like to also extend a welcome to Chris Fujiwara, whose very perceptive writing for The Boston Phoenix (among others) I've learned a great deal from over...
ptonguette@...
peter_tonguette
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Sep 13, 2003
5:23 am
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