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back to "genre" and "realism"   Message List  
Reply Message #1286 of 49242 |
"Realism" and Dickens

Fred, did you mention your view that a total simulation or recreation
of reality as perceived by "weaponless consciousness"* would be the
worst type of art? I sort of agree. However, the failure of cinema
to recreate reality or objects across time (that is, cinema's failure
to be a functioning time machine) is one of the most poignant and sad
themes in film, as evidenced in such great works as VERTIGO, LA JETEE,
LOLA MONTES, and so on.

Instead of replying in substance to everything else, I offer this
ironic desription of realistic literature in Dickens OUR MUTUAL FRIEND
that I like a lot:

"Mr Podsnap's notions of the Arts in their integrity might have been
stated thus. Literature; large print, respectfully descriptive of
getting up at eight, shaving close at a quarter past, breakfasting at
nine, going to the City at ten, coming home at half-past five, and
dining at seven. Painting and Sculpture; models and portraits
representing Professors of getting up at eight, shaving close at a
quarter past, breakfasting at nine, going to the City at ten, coming
home at half-past five, and dining at seven. Music; a respectable
performance (without variations) on stringed and wind
instruments, sedately expressive of getting up at eight, shaving
close at a quarter past, breakfasting at nine, going to the City at
ten, coming home at half-past five, and dining at seven. Nothing
else to be permitted to those same vagrants the Arts, on pain of
excommunication. Nothing else To Be--anywhere!"

Patrick


*"weaponless consciousness" Agee's phrase from LET US NOW PRAISE
FAMOUS MEN:
"[T]he camera seems to me, next to unassisted and weaponless
consciousness, the central instrument of ourtime ; and is why in turn
I feel such rage at its misuse: which has so nearly universal a
corruption of sight that I know of less than a dozen alive whose eyes
I can trust even so much as my own."




Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:29 pm

pwciccone
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Message #1286 of 49242 |
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I would like to go back to the discussion on genre and realism. Does anybody know any film that is great thanks to relationship with any genre? I don't and if...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2003
3:28 pm

Actually Jonathan's answer is correct. "The Wrong Man" is a hyper-realist film, shot on the locations where it actually took place. I grew up in the smae area...
David Ehrenstein
cellar47 Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2003
4:48 pm

Nice post on genre, Mike. ... I guess this realism discussion drove away Tag Gallagher, which wasn't my intention. Anyway, I saw two interesting new films...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1 Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2003
5:38 pm

Yoel, when you say that genre doesn't matter -- or more generally, 'context doesn't matter' -- you seem to be advocating what I would call an 'innocent' way of...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 19, 2003
12:11 pm

Yoel, when you say that genre doesn't matter -- or more generally, 'context doesn't matter' -- you seem to be advocating what I would call an 'innocent' way of...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 19, 2003
12:12 pm

... was ... I saw OASIS at the Palm Springs International FF in JAN2003 and was hoping to see it again (but it is not scheduled for our local SD ASIAN FF in...
Elizabeth Anne Nolan
eanmdphd Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
3:25 pm

... was ... I saw OASIS at the Palm Springs International FF in JAN2003 and was hoping to see it again (but it is not scheduled for our local SD ASIAN FF in...
Elizabeth Anne Nolan
eanmdphd Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
3:41 pm

... seeing ... for ... But what if one rejects the premise that a film is to be "understood"? I don't think one understands art: one experiences it....
Zach Campbell
rashomon82 Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2003
9:18 pm

how can there be any valid criticism if one can't comment properly on the natures of our feelings towards film, if they're so innefable? I don't know if I get...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier Offline Send Email
Aug 18, 2003
11:39 pm

Ruy wrote: "how can there be any valid criticism if one can't comment properly on the natures of our feelings towards film, if they're so inneffable? I don't...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
2:23 pm

The two subjects are separate discussions so I will try to keep them separate. David wrote: "Actually Jonathan's answer is correct. "The Wrong Man" is a...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
11:29 am

... I think you're still confusing labels of "realism" and "reality." Realism gives the impression of reality in at least some way - and it's visible in some...
Zach Campbell
rashomon82 Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
1:56 pm

Well, I agree with most of Yoel's sentiments, but with some qualifications. As Mike points out, seeing how a film differs from others in its genre is one way...
Fred Camper
fredcamper Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
12:19 pm

Fred, did you mention your view that a total simulation or recreation of reality as perceived by "weaponless consciousness"* would be the worst type of art? I...
Patrick Ciccone
pwciccone Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
1:29 pm

... Yes, yes, yes, and I could also cite Brakhage, Breer, Gehr, Snow, and many others.. Also, following on comments by Dan and Zach, for the "failure to...
Fred Camper
fredcamper Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
2:01 pm

Fred, I have to admit that the "big picture" is more complicated than I made it seem like. I have to think about the issue a "little" more and I have to see...
Yoel Meranda
ymeranda Offline Send Email
Aug 21, 2003
9:21 am

although I feel in some way close to Yoel's approach on realism - I agree, for instance, that it is a close-to-meaningless term when it is generally used,...
Ruy Gardnier
ruygardnier Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
2:03 pm

... I make comments like this last one all the time, but I suspect I'm really complaining about something other that a lack of realism. For instance, I...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1 Offline Send Email
Aug 19, 2003
2:51 pm

Yoel, I really question how conscious all the directors of classical Hollywood were of what I think they were "really: doing. Some were, such as Vidor, but...
Fred Camper
fredcamper Offline Send Email
Aug 21, 2003
2:48 pm

This question of intentionality gets tricky. I take it as axiomatic that whenever a movie succeeds artistically, what we're responding to has a lot of...
jaketwilson Offline Send Email Aug 21, 2003
5:31 pm
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