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Hawks, etc.   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1087 of 48868 |
Re: [a_film_by] Re: Hawks, etc.



Fred Camper wrote:

>
> Just keep repeating, there are no rules in art. An art work can be made
> primarily in response to another, partly, or not at all. And this is one
> reason that I share your dubiousness about synoptic theories of film,
> and art. But you're making one in denying the possibility that a film
> may be responding to a set of conventions that have accrued over the
> decades in films with similar subjects, or perhaps even commenting on
> those conventions.
>
> - Fred


I think that a film is a reponse to, possibly, everything that has gone
in the world prior to its existence. I never said anything to the
contrary. I've written about movies influencing each other all my life!
I simply said that art isn't prompted by a desire to be different but
rather by a desire to be oneself.


The question was when "genre" was used in regard to film.

In trade journals as early as 1907, westerns were divided into distinct
subgenres, each of which was known to possess its own specific
conventionsamong them, frontier dramas, Indian dramas, Civil War
dramas, western comedies. Films were made by quasi-indepentent
production units (same director, stars, writers), one film a week or
more, clearly in these genres. And they knew what their rivals were
doing because of long plot summaries in the journals. Instruction
booklets were available by mail order for nascent scenarists, in which
all the basic plots and their many variations within each genre were
carefully outlined.

>





Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:59 am

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... It's a very good article, with a lot of insights. I'm especially interested in your idea (via Zanuck) that Ford's shots somehow suggest a comprehensive...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 9, 2003
3:51 pm

Dan Sallitt wrote ... Precisely. I urge you to watch early 30s Ford with this in mind, particularly when close shots of people are being exchanged. e.g., AIR...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Aug 9, 2003
6:31 pm

... Interesting. I'd certainly go as far as saying that realism is a relative concept: that there's no such thing as an absolute standard of realism in any ...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 9, 2003
7:24 pm

... So can you give me a short concise definition of "realism" à la Auerbach, one which I can repeat the people on the street which they'll all understand...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Aug 10, 2003
2:43 am

... Do you mean this literally? He would have heard it in the (possibly unlikely) event that he'd read, say, V.F. Perkins' pre-'65 review of HATARI! (later...
jess_l_amortell
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Aug 10, 2003
5:16 am

... So we can date "genre" to the time of HATARI in both languages. Now: how far back can we date it in either language? As applied to movies. ... I'm not...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Aug 10, 2003
5:45 am

... If we stopped using all words that academics abuse, we'd have to talk in monosyllables. ... I don't think we're talking theory here. Filmmakers know about...
Dan Sallitt
sallitt1
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Aug 10, 2003
6:06 am

... "With regard to the genre, I am of the opinion that an English audience will not relish it so well as a more characteristic kind of comedy." - C. Jenner,...
Fred Camper
fredcamper
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Aug 10, 2003
6:27 am

... we ... the OED. ... online ... I have access to the online edition and there aren't any earlier citations for this entry in the sense you're talking about....
Paul Fileri
pafileri
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Aug 10, 2003
6:39 am

... So? And who said "all words that academics use"? How many words did I fault? Two? Three? Now suddenly according to you I'm against all words that aren't ...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Aug 10, 2003
6:43 am

... I think that a film is a reponse to, possibly, everything that has gone in the world prior to its existence. I never said anything to the contrary. I've...
Tag Gallagher
tagtagta
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Aug 10, 2003
7:01 am
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