Gelfling ears are offended by EVERY use of the "CRYSTAL CRACK CRASH."
 
Many humans dislike it too.
 
It disrupts rhythm instantly.
Skeksis "freeze" midstep,striking "Crystal Crack" postures:
They spring into "jagjerk" body language;they throw jagged,zigzagging  shadows
said to symbolize the shadows that leaped through Thra when the Crystal cracked.
 
Loud and very "unmusical" "noise?" -Absolutely.
 
Underlying rhythm? -It is less apparent.
 
You hear the CRYSTAL CRACK CRASH from much farther away.
 
If you fear the Skeksis you do NOT come close.
 
Somewhat strange sounds? If you do come close...?
-Of course there are.
Alien music often does make use of sound in ways that sound unusual to us.
 
Henson had to edit the original "Dark Crystal" soundtrack in order to obtain
material that ordinary Earthlings could recognize as "music."
 
Unediting Skeksis often go "unrecognized" by humans who just don't know
"how they can dance to that!?!"
 
"Underlying rhythm."
"It's there."
--- On Tue, 10/6/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: NON-DC: Get To Know You Survey
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 10:33 PM


 





--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Mondo Generator,
>  
> The words to "Crack That Crystal" could certainly be
> interspersed with percussion. Dissonance would also
> be permissible. ..but not UNORGANIZED noise...Skeksis who
> DANCE to "Crack That Crystal" require enough rhythm in
> there to dance TO.

So then what specifically causes non-Skeksis to consider this music as
"non-music"? .. Is it just bizarre chord progressions, obviously since Skeksis
who dance to this want rhythm so I get a feeling that free-form timings would be
a little less welcome.

> Take the Gelfling Ambassador's word:
>  
> "A musical voice is NOT required!!!"
>  
> However,if you really cannot bring yourself to sing in
> un-Gelfling discordance you will have to ask somebody else
> to sing with your evolving instrumentals:

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but I may have to find somebody
else to do it.. I dunno maybe when I get more of the melody fleshed out I'll
play around with some voice FX to see what I can do.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 6-Oct-09, at 11:24 PM, theem_from wrote:

> I did however suspect that the Crystal was responsible for your
> speedy evolution, I mean your planet has produced two species
> Gelfling & Podlings (And in the case of The Crystal Of Truth
> Sandlings so 3 species in that case)

Which would be my case as the Sandlings were a creation of John's
version of the Dark Crystal Universe, and that is the version I inhabit.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

On 6-Oct-09, at 9:44 PM, louise rothstein wrote:

> John's projected Gelflings had most deadly weapons.
> How did his Skeksis ever stay alive long enough to crack the Crystal?

Because they cracked the Crystal within minutes of their creation long
before the Gelfling fully realized what they were.  Even in Jim
Henson's version of the Dark Crystal Universe, it took the Gelfling
some time to fully realize the nature of the Skekses because the
Skekses were initially luminous creatures like the UrSkeks; this fact
was clearly stated in The World of The Dark Crystal.  So the Gelfling
in my Universe, at the time, had no reason to fear the Skekses; they
assumed the cracking of the Crystal was an accident (and, in fact, it
WAS).

In fact, SkekTek the Scientist, in that Universe, did a lot to help
restore electrical power to the world of Gelfinna (as it's called in
that Universe) after the cracking of the Crystal (the Crystal was
Gelfinna's main power source and the power grid was thrown into total
chaos when the Crystal cracked).

Unfortunately, SkekTek had ulterior motives and actually planted a
number of viruses throughout Gelfinna's computer systems that
eventually allowed him and the Skekses to use Gelfinna's orbital
thermonuclear platforms (designed to defend the planet against
asteroid collisions) against all Gelfling ships in orbit; by the time
the Gelfling knew what was happening, there wasn't a single Gelfling
ship in orbit and all planetary defense systems were under Skeksis
control.  In effect, the Sksekses used the Gelfling's own technology
against them.

Once that was done, using Gelfling transmission technology coupled
with the Crystal, it didn't take long to make a huge army of slaves
out of most of the planet's inhabitants.

> Let alone assemble a viable fighting force...?

With all the slaves they had by the end of the initial attack, with
literally billions of Gelfling on the planet, a large fighting force
was not a problem...

> And how would his Skeksis have ever managed to maintain their health?

Again, Gelfling technology to the rescue.  I haven't thought this
aspect of the story through yet but I imagine the Skekses would
probably use some form of orbital mirrors to reflect light from the
suns into the Crystal, in effect allowing the Crystal to receive
energy from at least one sun AT ALL TIMES.  It probably wouldn't be
enough to capture enough sunlight to rival the energy output of a
Great Conjunction (gravitational lensing caused by the alignment of
the suns would be necessary for that) but they could keep the Crystal
continuously powered.

> Since "driving the Gelfling from Thra" would have stranded them with
> NO source of the Gelfling essence that they employed for that
> purpose it would have been considerably more in character for them
> to try to compel  their "essence Gelfling" to stay on Thra.

Kira didn't explain that well (sorry, Kira :)).  They drove the
Gelfling MILITARY FORCES from Thra, particularly those not on the
surface (most ON THE SURFACE would have become slaves); the CIVILIAN
POPULATION was kept on the surface.

> And who were "the Minkalans?"

A species from a nearby star system.

> How did THEY ever get there...?

They were spacefaring and superlight (in Star Trek parlance "warp")
capable.  They never actually reached Gelfinna/Thra itself; they only
encroached on Gelfling space territory.

> Or was this a StarWarrian world?

Or Star Trekkian, depending on your perspective, yes. :)

> Where there was a Great Crystal?

The Crystal is identical in both Universes; the only difference is
that, in the Universe I was writing about, it was cracked 1000 years
later.

> -That attracted Gelfling,urSkeks,and Skeksis to a world of
> unwelcoming aborigines...?

???

> -Were Minkalans that...?


No; they were from a neighboring star system, as I said.

John A. Ardelli
http://pedalingprince.blogspot.com

On 6-Oct-09, at 9:44 PM, louise rothstein wrote:

> John hesitates to finish his projected work because there are
> obvious problems:

Although you addressed this question to me, since it involves John's
work and not my world, I think I will allow John to answer your
questions.

John?

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Mondo Generator,
>  
> The words to "Crack That Crystal" could certainly be
> interspersed with percussion.  Dissonance would also
> be permissible...but not UNORGANIZED noise...Skeksis who
> DANCE to "Crack That Crystal" require enough rhythm in
> there to dance TO.

So then what specifically causes non-Skeksis to consider this music as
"non-music"?..  Is it just bizarre chord progressions, obviously since Skeksis
who dance to this want rhythm so I get a feeling that free-form timings would be
a little less welcome.


> Take the Gelfling Ambassador's word:
>  
> "A musical voice is NOT required!!!"
>  
> However,if you really cannot bring yourself to sing in
> un-Gelfling discordance you will have to ask somebody else
> to sing with your evolving instrumentals:

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but I may have to find somebody
else to do it..  I dunno maybe when I get more of the melody fleshed out I'll
play around with some voice FX to see what I can do.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...> wrote:

> Yes, I know what "prehistory" means.  But the problem
> is how do you define an evolving species?  Gelfling and
> Humans both evolved in stages, changing very slowly into
> the creatures they are today.  At what point do you say,
> "This is a modern Human," or, "This is a modern Gelfling?"
> It'd be impossible to pin down so, even if we had access
> to your technology, it would be difficult to define.

Well yes you have a point there.  There is no way of knowing for sure exactly
when we evolved..  With humans it was roughly between 200 000 to 100 000 years
ago when we first started getting a species that could be called human but to
pin it down to a specific point in time you are absolutely right it cannot be
done.

> Still, I would guess that you're probably right but only
> because the Crystal accelerated evolution for every life form
> on Thra, us included, so it makes sense that we would develop
> more quickly than you.  In that sense, as strange as it may be
> to say, we can't really take full credit for how quickly
> our species evolved and how well.  The Crystal had a
> large influence on this.

Well the same way that humans have no control over the speed at which we evolved
either it's not like it was a concious desicion made by anyone.  I did however
suspect that the Crystal was responsible for your speedy evolution, I mean your
planet has produced two species Gelfling & Podlings (And in the case of The
Crystal Of Truth Sandlings so 3 species in that case) capable of the things we
humans are capable of language, art, etc.

--- On Tue, 10/6/09, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...> wrote:


From: louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [CrystalCorner] Re: Gelfings, Podlings, Aughra and what they
already know about their world
To: kira_kindala@...
Cc: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 8:44 PM







Dear Kira Kindala:
 
John hesitates to finish his projected work because there are obvious problems:
 
John's projected Gelflings had most deadly weapons.
How did his Skeksis ever stay alive long enough to crack the Crystal?
Let alone assemble a viable fighting force...?
 
And how would his Skeksis have ever managed to maintain their health?
Since "driving the Gelfling from Thra" would have stranded them with NO source
of the Gelfling essence that they employed for that purpose it would have been
considerably more in character for them to try to compel  their "essence
Gelfling" to stay on Thra.
 
And who were "the Minkalans?"
 
How did THEY ever get there...?
 
Or was this a StarWarrian world?
 
Where there was a Great Crystal?
 
-That attracted Gelfling,urSkeks,and Skeksis to a world of unwelcoming
aborigines...?
 
-Were Minkalans that...?

--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...> wrote:


From: Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...>
Subject: Re: [CrystalCorner] Re: Gelfings, Podlings, Aughra and what they
already know about their world
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 9:15 PM


 



On 3-Oct-09, at 12:08 PM, theem_from wrote:

> So you'd got to figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to
> humans it's gotta be way more than we are compared to the chimpanzee
> so then it's no wonder you've already figured out what your cosmos
> has looked like so early on in your existance. Hell if you guys were
> here on Earth instead of us humans you'd probably have the internet
> by the 1600s.

If that were true, would we not already have it? At the conjunction
when the Crystal cracked, our technological sophistication was similar
to your iron age. We had learned to forge iron, though gunpowder was
still beyond us. That actually took us until near the end of the
Skeksis wars. Our ships were, at the time of the final battles,
roughly a technological equivalent of your 1600s or so.

On the other hand, I suppose the Skeksis wars, and decimation on my
species' population, probably had an impact on our technological
advances. John did once start developing a Dark Crystal story where
the Skekses cracked the Crystal 1000 years later than they did in my
"timeline." In that timeline, we had sophisticated directed energy
weapons (high energy X-ray lasers), and thermonuclear warheads (the
ship mounted variety of which had an explosive yield of about 16
megatons). Most ships had berillium/titanium and later diburnium/
osmium armor. According to the backstory, the Gelfling had been
involved in a conflict with a neighboring species called the Minkalans
and, until the end of that war, energy shielding was still an
experimental technology. However the Melika class Explorer/
Battleship, the most advanced ship to be developed immediately after
the Minkalan wars four years before the Crystal's cracking, had the
first generation of energy based force beam-based energy shielding.

After the Crystal cracked, the Gelfling were soon driven from Thra by
slave-crewed ships from their own fleet. Research began at an off-
world starship development facility that would eventually see the
refitting of the Melika class with new, experimental weapons systems:
microwave cannons. Relatively short range but with 10 times the blast
yield of the most powerful X-ray lasers then available. They did have
one serious drawback, however. They required so much power to fire
that the shields would have to be lowered to fire them and their yield
was not adjustable. It wasn't possible to fire them at a lower yield
so the shields could be kept in place. In addition, the new Melika
class would have more advanced energy shielding systems and a new type
of hull armor: fibercoil quontobirillium. In effect, it acted a bit
like a rubber wall. The force of weapons impacts would be distributed
evenly throughout the hull instead of focusing on one point and
shattering the structure, not unlike hitting a rubber wall with a
hammer or a pneumatic tire absorbing road shock.

I'm paraphrasing and shortening a bit here from an old file John has
on his computer. He started writing a history of this ship, which my
counterpart in the story would be commanding, but he never finished
it. I wish he would, actually. It is somewhat interesting despite
being very Star Trek derivative. Nevertheless, it gives me an
interesting insight into another version of my world John was
considering creating but never did.

Anyway, I seem to have, as John likes to say, "Gone on a tangent."
Back to your points.

> So if we humans were to ever visit Thra or the other way around and
> an actual face to face interaction between Gelfing and humans was
> possible it'd almost be like one of us having a conversation with
> our household pets as many people often do. I mean dogs and cats are
> loving and sweet and everything and we don't wish any ill will
> against them you could only take the conversation so far with a dog
> or a cat and it isn't the same as an interaction with another human.
> So then I guess if human to gelfling interaction ever did actually
> happen one day it would be the same kind of thing.

Actually, I do not look upon the intellectual level of your species to
be inferior to mine. Indeed, the very fact that your technological
sophistication so radically outstrips ours strongly suggests that your
species is superior to ours in certain intellectual areas so I suspect
that, overall, our two species would speak at the same basic
intellectual level. If you'll forgive me for being blunt, it is not
the intellectual maturity of Humans I question so much as their
emotional maturity. For all the wondrous technology you've developed,
you are still trying to kill each other with it. That sounds to me
like your intellectual development, for whatever reason, dramatically
outraced your emotional development.

Even in the above hypothetical universe, Gelfling ships only fired on
one another because some were under Skeksis control and there was no
choice but for Gelfling under attack to defend themselves. Aside from
that, in that universe, Gelfling had not turned weapons on each other
in over 2000 years. Even Jolen's counterpart in that universe, not
having been subjected to the emotional stress of the Jolen in my
world, was not an evil man and medical technology then available made
it possible for him to manage the psychosis he was prone to due to his
unusually strong telepathic powers for a Gelfinina. In fact, Jolen
commanded one of many Gelfling ships in orbit when the war began, the
only ship to survive the initial bombardment when the Skeksis turned
the orbital thermonuclear platforms, intended to defend the planed
(called "Gelfinna" in this reality) against astroid collision, against
all Gelfling ships in orbit. Jolen's ship was spotted and ultimately
destroyed but not before he dispatched a high speed warning buoy,
transmitting a warning to approaching Gelfling ships to flee, saving
millions of Gelfling lives. So, in that universe, Jolen was
effectively a hero.

John got quite far on the development of this story before he
abandoned it. He still thinks about it from time to time but I've
been unsuccessful in trying to convince him to write it down.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar














__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Kira Kindala:
 
John hesitates to finish his projected work because there are obvious problems:
 
John's projected Gelflings had most deadly weapons.
How did his Skeksis ever stay alive long enough to crack the Crystal?
Let alone assemble a viable fighting force...?
 
And how would his Skeksis have ever managed to maintain their health?
Since "driving the Gelfling from Thra" would have stranded them with NO source
of the Gelfling essence that they employed for that purpose it would have been
considerably more in character for them to try to compel  their "essence
Gelfling" to stay on Thra.
 
And who were "the Minkalans?"
 
How did THEY ever get there...?
 
Or was this a StarWarrian world?
 
Where there was a Great Crystal?
 
-That attracted Gelfling,urSkeks,and Skeksis to a world of unwelcoming
aborigines...?
 
-Were Minkalans that...?

--- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...> wrote:


From: Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...>
Subject: Re: [CrystalCorner] Re: Gelfings, Podlings, Aughra and what they
already know about their world
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 9:15 PM


 



On 3-Oct-09, at 12:08 PM, theem_from wrote:

> So you'd got to figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to
> humans it's gotta be way more than we are compared to the chimpanzee
> so then it's no wonder you've already figured out what your cosmos
> has looked like so early on in your existance. Hell if you guys were
> here on Earth instead of us humans you'd probably have the internet
> by the 1600s.

If that were true, would we not already have it? At the conjunction
when the Crystal cracked, our technological sophistication was similar
to your iron age. We had learned to forge iron, though gunpowder was
still beyond us. That actually took us until near the end of the
Skeksis wars. Our ships were, at the time of the final battles,
roughly a technological equivalent of your 1600s or so.

On the other hand, I suppose the Skeksis wars, and decimation on my
species' population, probably had an impact on our technological
advances. John did once start developing a Dark Crystal story where
the Skekses cracked the Crystal 1000 years later than they did in my
"timeline." In that timeline, we had sophisticated directed energy
weapons (high energy X-ray lasers), and thermonuclear warheads (the
ship mounted variety of which had an explosive yield of about 16
megatons). Most ships had berillium/titanium and later diburnium/
osmium armor. According to the backstory, the Gelfling had been
involved in a conflict with a neighboring species called the Minkalans
and, until the end of that war, energy shielding was still an
experimental technology. However the Melika class Explorer/
Battleship, the most advanced ship to be developed immediately after
the Minkalan wars four years before the Crystal's cracking, had the
first generation of energy based force beam-based energy shielding.

After the Crystal cracked, the Gelfling were soon driven from Thra by
slave-crewed ships from their own fleet. Research began at an off-
world starship development facility that would eventually see the
refitting of the Melika class with new, experimental weapons systems:
microwave cannons. Relatively short range but with 10 times the blast
yield of the most powerful X-ray lasers then available. They did have
one serious drawback, however. They required so much power to fire
that the shields would have to be lowered to fire them and their yield
was not adjustable. It wasn't possible to fire them at a lower yield
so the shields could be kept in place. In addition, the new Melika
class would have more advanced energy shielding systems and a new type
of hull armor: fibercoil quontobirillium. In effect, it acted a bit
like a rubber wall. The force of weapons impacts would be distributed
evenly throughout the hull instead of focusing on one point and
shattering the structure, not unlike hitting a rubber wall with a
hammer or a pneumatic tire absorbing road shock.

I'm paraphrasing and shortening a bit here from an old file John has
on his computer. He started writing a history of this ship, which my
counterpart in the story would be commanding, but he never finished
it. I wish he would, actually. It is somewhat interesting despite
being very Star Trek derivative. Nevertheless, it gives me an
interesting insight into another version of my world John was
considering creating but never did.

Anyway, I seem to have, as John likes to say, "Gone on a tangent."
Back to your points.

> So if we humans were to ever visit Thra or the other way around and
> an actual face to face interaction between Gelfing and humans was
> possible it'd almost be like one of us having a conversation with
> our household pets as many people often do. I mean dogs and cats are
> loving and sweet and everything and we don't wish any ill will
> against them you could only take the conversation so far with a dog
> or a cat and it isn't the same as an interaction with another human.
> So then I guess if human to gelfling interaction ever did actually
> happen one day it would be the same kind of thing.

Actually, I do not look upon the intellectual level of your species to
be inferior to mine. Indeed, the very fact that your technological
sophistication so radically outstrips ours strongly suggests that your
species is superior to ours in certain intellectual areas so I suspect
that, overall, our two species would speak at the same basic
intellectual level. If you'll forgive me for being blunt, it is not
the intellectual maturity of Humans I question so much as their
emotional maturity. For all the wondrous technology you've developed,
you are still trying to kill each other with it. That sounds to me
like your intellectual development, for whatever reason, dramatically
outraced your emotional development.

Even in the above hypothetical universe, Gelfling ships only fired on
one another because some were under Skeksis control and there was no
choice but for Gelfling under attack to defend themselves. Aside from
that, in that universe, Gelfling had not turned weapons on each other
in over 2000 years. Even Jolen's counterpart in that universe, not
having been subjected to the emotional stress of the Jolen in my
world, was not an evil man and medical technology then available made
it possible for him to manage the psychosis he was prone to due to his
unusually strong telepathic powers for a Gelfinina. In fact, Jolen
commanded one of many Gelfling ships in orbit when the war began, the
only ship to survive the initial bombardment when the Skeksis turned
the orbital thermonuclear platforms, intended to defend the planed
(called "Gelfinna" in this reality) against astroid collision, against
all Gelfling ships in orbit. Jolen's ship was spotted and ultimately
destroyed but not before he dispatched a high speed warning buoy,
transmitting a warning to approaching Gelfling ships to flee, saving
millions of Gelfling lives. So, in that universe, Jolen was
effectively a hero.

John got quite far on the development of this story before he
abandoned it. He still thinks about it from time to time but I've
been unsuccessful in trying to convince him to write it down.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mondo Generator,
 
The words to "Crack That Crystal" could certainly be interspersed with
percussion.
Dissonance would also be permissible...but not UNORGANIZED noise...Skeksis who
DANCE to "Crack That Crystal" require enough rhythm in there to dance TO.

The words enhance the rhythm they dance to.
The words are an integral part of  "Crack That Crystal."
You can "hear" where the words are in even instrumental versions.
 
But you can only hear the "pure music" (or ANTImusic!!!)
FAR away from fellows like skekArlak...
They roar  right along.
 
Take the Gelfling Ambassador's word:
 
"A musical voice is NOT required!!!"
 
However,if you really cannot bring yourself to sing in un-Gelfling discordance
you will have to ask somebody else to sing with your evolving instrumentals:
You do have to get the rhythm right for SOME kind of dance...!!!
 
However indecorous the dancing may be...!
 
Because...
 
"Crystal Crack Music" and total decorum...
 
-Aren't completely compatible.
--- On Thu, 10/1/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: NON-DC: Get To Know You Survey
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 12:32 PM


 




> Perhaps,too, one of the tunes on your shelf" would be right for
> such horribly ungolden oldies as:
>  
> "Crack that Crystal! CRACKCRACKCRACK! Crackcrackcrackcrac k!
> CRACK THAT CRYSTAL! Crackcrackcrack! Crackcrackcrackcrac k!
> Crack that Crys-tal! Enemies are easy mark!
> More.. than... CRYS-TAL
> Can go "Crack!"
> In Garthim Park!"

I've already begun work on a kind of well let's say Edgar Varese/Captain
Beefheartish melody for crack that crystal.. I think that's the peice I'm going
to work on first because I've already got it started. It's very percussion
oriented, very dissonent not melodical at all most listeners might find the tune
unlistenable by the time it's finished.. I still haven't figured out how the
vocals are going to work I mean how I'm going to actually add vocals to this
peice. Because this is very different than anything else I've ever really
composed in that it's supposed to be 'skeksis music' I mean first off I'm not a
vocalist I've never sung any of the songs I've written usually they are
instrumentals and the singer of whatever group I'm playing in when they do add
lyrics does the singing. The vocals are supposed to be a lot of growling and
howling type vocals so I don't know how I'm going to do that.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 6-Oct-09, at 11:23 AM, theem_from wrote:

>>> So you'd got to figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to
>>> humans it's gotta be way more than we are compared to the
>>> chimpanzee so then it's no wonder you've already figured out what
>>> your cosmos has looked like so early on in your existance. Hell if
>>> you guys were here on Earth instead of us humans you'd probably
>>> have the internet by the 1600s.
>>
>> If that were true, would we not already have it?
>
> Okay.. Well then maybe I'm mistaken so perhaps you could correct be
> here but I was under the impression that Gelfling were a much
> younger species than we humans are. I mean you probably don't know
> exactly how old your species is because you can't carbon date yet
> but Aughra pre-dates Gelfling so maybe she told you how long
> Gelfling have been on Thra. 'The World Of The Dark Crystal' only
> goes back about 3000 years but in a previous conversation you
> informed me that this only is the history of modern Gelfling, is
> prior to 3000 years going back into your pre-history?.. You know
> before you started recording history? Because that would suggest
> that you reached the iron age quite a bit sooner than we did. Not
> that it's a race or anything.

Yes, I know what "prehistory" means.  But the problem is how do you
define an evolving species?  Gelfling and Humans both evolved in
stages, changing very slowly into the creatures they are today.  At
what point do you say, "This is a modern Human," or, "This is a modern
Gelfling?"  It'd be impossible to pin down so, even if we had access
to your technology, it would be difficult to define.  Even though my
Universe is based in John's imagination even he cannot say for certain
how old my species is because, again, where do you draw the line
between the more primitive stages my species went through and what we
are now?

Still, I would guess that you're probably right but only because the
Crystal accelerated evolution for every life form on Thra, us
included, so it makes sense that we would develop more quickly than
you.  In that sense, as strange as it may be to say, we can't really
take full credit for how quickly our species evolved and how well.
The Crystal had a large influence on this.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...> wrote:
>
> On 3-Oct-09, at 12:08 PM, theem_from wrote:
>
> > So you'd got to figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to
> > humans it's gotta be way more than we are compared to
> > the chimpanzee so then it's no wonder you've already
> > figured out what your cosmos has looked like so early on
> > in your existance. Hell if you guys were here on Earth
> > instead of us humans you'd probably have the internet
> > by the 1600s.
>
> If that were true, would we not already have it?

Okay.. Well then maybe I'm mistaken so perhaps you could correct be here but I
was under the impression that Gelfling were a much younger species than we
humans are.  I mean you probably don't know exactly how old your species is
because you can't carbon date yet but Aughra pre-dates Gelfling so maybe she
told you how long Gelfling have been on Thra.  'The World Of The Dark Crystal'
only goes back about 3000 years but in a previous conversation you informed me
that this only is the history of modern Gelfling, is prior to 3000 years going
back into your pre-history?..  You know before you started recording history? 
Because that would suggest that you reached the iron age quite a bit sooner than
we did.  Not that it's a race or anything.

On 3-Oct-09, at 12:08 PM, theem_from wrote:

> So you'd got to figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to
> humans it's gotta be way more than we are compared to the chimpanzee
> so then it's no wonder you've already figured out what your cosmos
> has looked like so early on in your existance. Hell if you guys were
> here on Earth instead of us humans you'd probably have the internet
> by the 1600s.

If that were true, would we not already have it?  At the conjunction
when the Crystal cracked, our technological sophistication was similar
to your iron age.  We had learned to forge iron, though gunpowder was
still beyond us.  That actually took us until near the end of the
Skeksis wars.  Our ships were, at the time of the final battles,
roughly a technological equivalent of your 1600s or so.

On the other hand, I suppose the Skeksis wars, and decimation on my
species' population, probably had an impact on our technological
advances.  John did once start developing a Dark Crystal story where
the Skekses cracked the Crystal 1000 years later than they did in my
"timeline."  In that timeline, we had sophisticated directed energy
weapons (high energy X-ray lasers), and thermonuclear warheads (the
ship mounted variety of which had an explosive yield of about 16
megatons).  Most ships had berillium/titanium and later diburnium/
osmium armor.  According to the backstory, the Gelfling had been
involved in a conflict with a neighboring species called the Minkalans
and, until the end of that war, energy shielding was still an
experimental technology.  However the Melika class Explorer/
Battleship, the most advanced ship to be developed immediately after
the Minkalan wars four years before the Crystal's cracking, had the
first generation of energy based force beam-based energy shielding.

After the Crystal cracked, the Gelfling were soon driven from Thra by
slave-crewed ships from their own fleet.  Research began at an off-
world starship development facility that would eventually see the
refitting of the Melika class with new, experimental weapons systems:
microwave cannons.  Relatively short range but with 10 times the blast
yield of the most powerful X-ray lasers then available.  They did have
one serious drawback, however.  They required so much power to fire
that the shields would have to be lowered to fire them and their yield
was not adjustable.  It wasn't possible to fire them at a lower yield
so the shields could be kept in place.  In addition, the new Melika
class would have more advanced energy shielding systems and a new type
of hull armor:  fibercoil quontobirillium.  In effect, it acted a bit
like a rubber wall.  The force of weapons impacts would be distributed
evenly throughout the hull instead of focusing on one point and
shattering the structure, not unlike hitting a rubber wall with a
hammer or a pneumatic tire absorbing road shock.

I'm paraphrasing and shortening a bit here from an old file John has
on his computer.  He started writing a history of this ship, which my
counterpart in the story would be commanding, but he never finished
it.  I wish he would, actually.  It is somewhat interesting despite
being very Star Trek derivative.  Nevertheless, it gives me an
interesting insight into another version of my world John was
considering creating but never did.

Anyway, I seem to have, as John likes to say, "Gone on a tangent."
Back to your points.

> So if we humans were to ever visit Thra or the other way around and
> an actual face to face interaction between Gelfing and humans was
> possible it'd almost be like one of us having a conversation with
> our household pets as many people often do. I mean dogs and cats are
> loving and sweet and everything and we don't wish any ill will
> against them you could only take the conversation so far with a dog
> or a cat and it isn't the same as an interaction with another human.
> So then I guess if human to gelfling interaction ever did actually
> happen one day it would be the same kind of thing.

Actually, I do not look upon the intellectual level of your species to
be inferior to mine.  Indeed, the very fact that your technological
sophistication so radically outstrips ours strongly suggests that your
species is superior to ours in certain intellectual areas so I suspect
that, overall, our two species would speak at the same basic
intellectual level.  If you'll forgive me for being blunt, it is not
the intellectual maturity of Humans I question so much as their
emotional maturity.  For all the wondrous technology you've developed,
you are still trying to kill each other with it.  That sounds to me
like your intellectual development, for whatever reason, dramatically
outraced your emotional development.

Even in the above hypothetical universe, Gelfling ships only fired on
one another because some were under Skeksis control and there was no
choice but for Gelfling under attack to defend themselves.  Aside from
that, in that universe, Gelfling had not turned weapons on each other
in over 2000 years.  Even Jolen's counterpart in that universe, not
having been subjected to the emotional stress of the Jolen in my
world, was not an evil man and medical technology then available made
it possible for him to manage the psychosis he was prone to due to his
unusually strong telepathic powers for a Gelfinina.  In fact, Jolen
commanded one of many Gelfling ships in orbit when the war began, the
only ship to survive the initial bombardment when the Skeksis turned
the orbital thermonuclear platforms, intended to defend the planed
(called "Gelfinna" in this reality) against astroid collision, against
all Gelfling ships in orbit.  Jolen's ship was spotted and ultimately
destroyed but not before he dispatched a high speed warning buoy,
transmitting a warning to approaching Gelfling ships to flee, saving
millions of Gelfling lives.  So, in that universe, Jolen was
effectively a hero.

John got quite far on the development of this story before he
abandoned it.  He still thinks about it from time to time but I've
been unsuccessful in trying to convince him to write it down.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, Kira Kindala <kira_kindala@...> wrote:

> It is ironic I should say that Doria was alone as she,
> unlike myself,  was raised among Gelfling.  But, because
> Jolen's mental isolation, she was almost as alone as I.
> Before she met Jen and myself she could not touch the minds
> of others rendering her locked in her body like a cage.
> From my experiences talking to Humans, and particularly to
> John, it seems this is a common frustration for your species.  You
> often feel isolated in your own bodies even when surrounded by
> people.  You long to be able to go beyond the touching of flesh
> to the touching of souls.  In that, I suppose, my species has
> the advantage.   I only wish I could share that experience
> with your species but, even if I wasn't a fictional
> character trapped in the mind of a Human, it is unlikely
> Gelfling and Human physiologies would be sufficiently
> compatible to make the connection possible.  The only thing
> I could offer a Human is physical pleasure, and that is a
> mere shadow of what we experience when we Gelfling are intimate.

That's just the thing right I mean you take our closest cousins the chimanzee
and we share 98.9% of our DNA..  98.9% of our DNA is EXACTLY the same.  You take
the smartest chimps and you can like teach them to do sign language or something
but that's it.  So when you look at human accomplishments like the Hubble
telescope, Ipods, The Internet, Automobiles, Airplanes etc, Calculous, Algebra,
etc. the capacity for these exists in that 1% of DNA that is different from us
and the chimpanzee.  So even if you were to imagine a species that went just 1%
away from us in the direction that we are from the chimp and we'd look like
drooling idiots compared to them.  They would literally be able to wheel out
Stephen Hawking in front of their primate research groups and they'd be like
"Look this is one of the most intelligent humans he can do astrophysics in his
head" and then I'd guarantee you another one would probably be like "Aww isn't
that cute..  Little Johnny did that this morning here it's on the refridgerator
he did that in his elementary school class." I mean that's how pathetic we'd
look by comparison..  And that's just in 1% difference in DNA..  So you'd got to
figure how far advanced Gelfling are compared to humans it's gotta be way more
than we are compared to the chimpanzee so then it's no wonder you've already
figured out what your cosmos has looked like so early on in your existance. 
Hell if you guys were here on Earth instead of us humans you'd probably have the
internet by the 1600s.

So if we humans were to ever visit Thra or the other way around and an actual
face to face interaction between Gelfing and humans was possible it'd almost be
like one of us having a conversation with our household pets as many people
often do.  I mean dogs and cats are loving and sweet and everything and we don't
wish any ill will against them you could only take the conversation so far with
a dog or a cat and it isn't the same as an interaction with another human.  So
then I guess if human to gelfling interaction ever did actually happen one day
it would be the same kind of thing.

On 1-Oct-09, at 2:30 PM, theem_from wrote:

> Really it is possible for Gelfling to lie in their thoughts?..

Only if one is significantly more powerful mentally than the other as
was the case with Doria and Jolen.  Doria has very little mind power.
I have managed to train her to use more of it but, even at her best,
her powers are only a shadow of my own.  I found her retraining to be
particularly challenging because Jolen had actively suppressed her
mind powers throughout his relationship with her so it took
significant effort on my part to draw them to the surface.  Indeed,
before I began working with her, she in essence didn't have any
stronger telepathic powers than the average member of your own species.

If I wanted to, it would be possible for me to hide my true thoughts
and feelings from Doria but, to do that, I would have to do what Jolen
did and suppress her mind power.  This is something I will do to no
Gelfling.  Besides, I want her to know how I feel and what I think.
She has lived most of her adult life isolated from the love of
others.  I wish to share with her the love I have for her for the
simple reason that she deserves it after being alone for so long.

It is ironic I should say that Doria was alone as she, unlike myself,
was raised among Gelfling.  But, because Jolen's mental isolation, she
was almost as alone as I.  Before she met Jen and myself she could not
touch the minds of others rendering her locked in her body like a
cage.  From my experiences talking to Humans, and particularly to
John, it seems this is a common frustration for your species.  You
often feel isolated in your own bodies even when surrounded by
people.  You long to be able to go beyond the touching of flesh to the
touching of souls.  In that, I suppose, my species has the advantage.
I only wish I could share that experience with your species but, even
if I wasn't a fictional character trapped in the mind of a Human, it
is unlikely Gelfling and Human physiologies would be sufficiently
compatible to make the connection possible.  The only thing I could
offer a Human is physical pleasure, and that is a mere shadow of what
we experience when we Gelfling are intimate.

> [T]he thing I always found interesting about dreamfasting is it
> would create a kind of honesty I mean it would be hard to keep
> secrets. I mean even little secrets.. Sometimes it is commonplace to
> not tell someone what you really think to avoid hurting their
> feelings. But if someone is dreamfasting with you if there is
> something you don't like about them they'd know it through
> dreamfasting wouldn't they?..

Yes.  In that way, our culture is very similar to the Betazoids in
Star Trek.  For the same reason, their culture is built on total,
blunt honesty because their wide open minds make it difficult to keep
things from one another.  Actually, I think that's why one of my
personal favorites among guest characters on Star Trek: The Next
Generation is Lwaxana Troi.  She is the ultimate in total, unvarnished
honesty and she sufficiently eccentric to make that quite entertaining
as well.

> I guess then problems might get resolved faster rather than
> suppressing whatever issues you have with a person.

Very much so.  It is extremely rare for two Gelfling to allow
resentments to "build up" the way you Humans do.

> Is it hard to be tactful when dreamfasting?..

There is no need for tact in dreamfasting because, in most cases, in
touching the minds of others, we discover we are not the only ones who
have a given failing.  That's a problem among Humans.  When one of you
has a failing, you tend to feel like you are the only one who has it.
It is only when you start talking to others that you may discover
you're not the only one.  Of course, even then it's hard to find out
because if everyone thinks they're the only one with a given failing
then everyone tends not to talk about it out of shame and nobody ends
up finding out how common the failing is in the first place.

Let's take something simple like a tendency to unconsciously pick
one's nose.  Most Humans won't admit to doing this unless actually
caught in the act.  A Gelfling with this failing, however, would
immediately be "discovered" upon dreamfasting.  Of course, they also
discover in the process that there are many other Gelfling who do this
as well.  This has an interesting effect.  While Gelfling and Humans
both find seeing someone do this a bit nauseating, it doesn't carry
the stigma of shame it does among your people because, in touching
others' minds, we know that some do it unconsciously without realizing
it.  This takes away the sense of "blame."  Further, those who have
had this habit and overcame it can use our mind powers to help those
with this habit avoid doing it.

I have never really sat down and thought about it until now but Human
culture runs on a great deal of "guilt."  One of the major ways Humans
try to change the behavior of others is to make one feel ashamed of a
particular behavior or attitude.  It is difficult to do that among a
telepathic species, however, since most failings are much more common
than one believes and knowing for a fact through mind touch that
others have the same failing tends to have the effect of assuaging
guilt.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

On 1-Oct-09, at 2:22 PM, theem_from wrote:

> I remember she even once said "I'm sorry but" before stating the
> obvious that Gelfing are more emotionaly evolved than we humans are,
> of course she didn't have to apologize for making that criticism
> because it is true.


Even if true, it is still ordinary politeness to apologize before
criticizing someone.  This appears to be common sense since both
Gelfling and Humans tend to do this.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Few Gelfling ever liked to think lying thoughts:

Really it is possible for Gelfling to lie in their thoughts?..  This is truely
interesting.  I mean the thing I always found interesting about dreamfasting is
it would create a kind of honesty I mean it would be hard to keep secrets.  I
mean even little secrets..  Sometimes it is commonplace to not tell someone what
you really think to avoid hurting their feelings.  But if someone is
dreamfasting with you if there is something you don't like about them they'd
know it through dreamfasting wouldn't they?..  I guess then problems might get
resolved faster rather than suppressing whatever issues you have with a person. 
Is it hard to be tactful when dreamfasting?.. I mean if you really think
something bad about someone it would be hard for the other person not to find
out.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Mondo Generator,
>  
> Human totalitarians WERE "freaks" in most communities before
> the Kurgan invasions.

No but we are a species that has been burdened by totalitarianism for quite a
long time.  So human totalitarians are not really freaks anymore.


> We WERE probably as "good" as Gelfling...For a VERY
> long time...But...

Well we did have barbarism and tribal wars(Which is obviously a different
problem from totalitarianism but I would still hardly call it "good")..  Up
until the 1500s 2/3 of the world still hunter/gather populations which very
often engaged in genocidal wars.  Of course these instincts predate our species,
it actually arose in apes before the chimp/human split.  Jane Goodall has
observed chimpanzees coming together and with coordination move to a neighboring
community of chimps and then find and kill victims.

 

> We look worse than Gelfling? -Of course we do.
> Had their history been as awful as our own they'd look
> terrible too. 
> Just picture FIVE THOUSAND YEARS of Jolenite "justification"!!!

Well Jolen again seems to be a rarity among Gelfing.  In my previous discussions
about Gelfling vs. Human as much as Kira objected to my comparison of humans to
Skeksis I have gotten her to concede that even if my veiws on humanity is
incredibly harsh Gelfling are still better able to restrain their violent urges
than humans.  I remember she even once said "I'm sorry but" before stating the
obvious that Gelfing are more emotionaly evolved than we humans are, of course
she didn't have to apologize for making that criticism because it is true.  I
don't know a whole lot about the Gelfling anantomy but if I'd have to guess I'd
say two other differences Gelfling probably have with us humans is they probably
have smaller adrenaline glands than we humans do and probably larger frontal
lobes.
 

> Perhaps,too, one of the tunes on your shelf" would be right for
> such horribly ungolden oldies as:
>  
> "Crack that Crystal! CRACKCRACKCRACK! Crackcrackcrackcrack!
> CRACK THAT CRYSTAL! Crackcrackcrack! Crackcrackcrackcrack!
> Crack that Crys-tal! Enemies are easy mark!
> More.. than... CRYS-TAL
> Can go "Crack!"
> In Garthim Park!"

I've already begun work on a kind of well let's say Edgar Varese/Captain
Beefheartish melody for crack that crystal..  I think that's the peice I'm going
to work on first because I've already got it started.  It's very percussion
oriented, very dissonent not melodical at all most listeners might find the tune
unlistenable by the time it's finished..  I still haven't figured out how the
vocals are going to work I mean how I'm going to actually add vocals to this
peice.  Because this is very different than anything else I've ever really
composed in that it's supposed to be 'skeksis music' I mean first off I'm not a
vocalist I've never sung any of the songs I've written usually they are
instrumentals and the singer of whatever group I'm playing in when they do add
lyrics does the singing.  The vocals are supposed to be a lot of growling and
howling type vocals so I don't know how I'm going to do that.

On 1-Oct-09, at 12:06 AM, theem_from wrote:

> I remember when I first got the Dark Crystal Manga I had basically
> just posted my thoughts on the story just random musings mostly and
> I made a cheezy little joke when I compared Gelfing to hippies I
> added in brackets 'I'm sure Gelfling bathe more though' and it
> obviously wasn't a serious question or anything it was just a little
> quip but out of nowhere Kira had felt the need to post an entire
> paragraph in response describing the bathing rituals of herself, Jen
> and Doria. It's a little part of her personality that I for some
> reason happen to find very fascinating.

I knew you were joking but it seemed like a good opportunity to start
a discussion.

Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

Kira from this forum of course.. Last november we had a long discussion about
human vs gelfling nature it was interesting.  I was actually responding to what
you had said Louise about the solution to poverty being us humans living like
the Gelfling and Podlings, I honestly thought the conversation was just going to
end there but then Kira just had sooo much to say in response I think the back
and forth went on for a solid week.

Actually I find that rather interesting about Kira, because sometimes she'll go
into great detail about something that wasn't even a significant point in the
converstaion.  For example I remember when I first got the Dark Crystal Manga I
had basically just posted my thoughts on the story just random musings mostly
and I made a cheezy little joke when I compared Gelfing to hippies I added in
brackets 'I'm sure Gelfling bathe more though' and it obviously wasn't a serious
question or anything it was just a little quip but out of nowhere Kira had felt
the need to post an entire paragraph in response describing the bathing rituals
of herself, Jen and Doria.  It's a little part of her personality that I for
some reason happen to find very fascinating.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
>
> You had conversations with Kira...?
> What did she say?
>
> --- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
> Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: Hello
> To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:50 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> --- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > Or are prepared to get one going...
> > And/or to KEEP one going:
> >  
> > Active contributors  do both.
> >  
> > I believe you can do it.
> > And I hope you do...Because. ..
> >  
> > We need good contributors.
>
> Well I've had lengthy discussions with Kira and also you Louise..
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be enough traffic to this website these days
so it's hard to get a conversation going.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Few Gelfling ever liked to think lying thoughts:
but they would have learned to do it if Jolen had abused them much longer.
 
This would have brought them only partial protection.
Mental censorship doesn't really depend on effective mind reading.
Intimidation is the name of its game...As intolerance is.
 
Neither of which are compatible with dreamfasting.
Jolen's mental coercion felt rather like rape.
Real dreamfasting felt more like love.
Intimate.
Shared.
Profoundly coercion free.
 
That is what it was like.
 
And Jolen did not do it well.
 
To do dreamfasting well...
 
He would have had to change.
--- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Gelfings, Podlings, Aughra and what they
already know about their world
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 11:10 PM


 



--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, "theem_from" <Mondo_Generator_ 44@...>
wrote:

> > But save for a few freaks...(like Jolen diDellin)
> > they do NOT permit "diSkeksis" garbage to "make" them
> > limit their own minds...or to "make" them limit others'
> > minds either.
>
> Yup a Gelfling totalitarian really is a 'freak'
> in Gelfling society.. Not so much with our species unfortunately.
>

A thought just came to me with regards to totalitarianism and probably one of
the most notorious depictions of it Orwell's classic 1984.. In 1984 Big Brother
convicted people of thought crime and of course they couldn't actually read
peoples minds however a Gelfling totalitarian system truely would be able to
convict someone of thought crime given they have the ability to dreamfast.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mondo Generator,
 
The lyrics to "O My Beautiful Doll" incorporate:
"Oh my beautiful doll,my great big beautiful doll..." if you decide to alter
this to
"Oh,your beautiful beak,your great big beautiful beak" you will glimpse the
process
by which certain filkers create filk by merely changing a few words in songs
that are (or which were) well known.
 
Like"Oh My Beautiful Doll..." but nobody did "do" that doll...if YOU do...!
 
Maybe, just maybe,
 
YOU will find your first filk.
 
P.S. There is an audio file in the Crystal Corner that has had little in it
beyond
a few of Jen's musical doodles for a LOOONG time.
 
By "My (transformedly!) Beautiful Doll,"
 
We could change that.
 
Perhaps,too, one of the tunes on your shelf" would be right for
such horribly ungolden oldies as:
 
"Crack that Crystal! CRACKCRACKCRACK! Crackcrackcrackcrack!
CRACK THAT CRYSTAL! Crackcrackcrack! Crackcrackcrackcrack!
Crack that Crys-tal! Enemies are easy mark!
More.. than... CRYS-TAL
Can go "Crack!"
In Garthim Park!"
____________________________
Orrr....
____________________________
 
"Fear what urSkekkers bestow?
Let us hear an urSkek blow!
 
Sound like we are throwing up?
Did it to urRuan pup
For we gobbled awful stuff
UrRu know we took enough
Threw up on Conjunction Day:
 
Our "urSkekkers"?
 
So did they.
 
Awful noises are the song...?!?
Fizzgig fur emetic strong!!!
So hard...were upchucking too...Couldn't even croak "EEYOOO!!!"
 
Staggering in Skeksan space...
UrRu vomiting disgrace...
 
Though they came for more than fun
UrRu lost and Skeksis won.
 
That is what we do believe
Though in exile...we grieve...
 
We reclaimed right to be us:
 
Worth a most revolting fuss.
 
So we show in full array
Marching on Dark Crystal Day
 
For  when all is said and done
UrRu lost and Skeksis won.


--- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: NON-DC: Get To Know You Survey
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:32 PM


 



--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Now really.
> Although skekArlak is my creation he is not precisely myself.
> I would not actually assasinate Jen...or cripple Kira...

Well obviously I wasn't being serious.. I'm not infavor of Jen getting murdered
and Kira crippled either. I just have a very dark sense of humor in case you
haven't noticed.

> Who did write the lyrics to skekArlak's favorite CD..?
> They were sung (or roared out!!!) for a very long time...
> -Without being written down.

I was gonna say because I was thinking of eventually setting them to actual
music if they did exist.

> They do concede that:
> These lyrics are public property now.
>  
> Anyone can create a new version...
>  
> And does.
>  
> New fanfilk,anybody. ..?

Maybe if I get bored enough and some words for these songs pops into my head I
will record it.. Melody lines come to me very easily I have tonnes of them
sitting on the shelf it's just lyrics I can't write lyrics to save my life.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 30-Sep-09, at 7:01 PM, louise rothstein wrote:
> You had conversations with Kira...?
> What did she say?
>

That's a pretty open ended question, Louise, given how many subjects
I've talked about here over the years.
Kira Kindala
Operational Ruler
Kingdom of Rindaar

You were talking to Kira...?
 
What did she say?

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: Hello
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:50 PM


 



--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Or are prepared to get one going...
> And/or to KEEP one going:
>  
> Active contributors  do both.
>  
> I believe you can do it.
> And I hope you do...Because. ..
>  
> We need good contributors.

Well I've had lengthy discussions with Kira and also you Louise.. Unfortunately
there doesn't seem to be enough traffic to this website these days so it's hard
to get a conversation going.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You had conversations with Kira...?
What did she say?

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:


From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Re: Hello
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:50 PM


 



--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Or are prepared to get one going...
> And/or to KEEP one going:
>  
> Active contributors  do both.
>  
> I believe you can do it.
> And I hope you do...Because. ..
>  
> We need good contributors.

Well I've had lengthy discussions with Kira and also you Louise.. Unfortunately
there doesn't seem to be enough traffic to this website these days so it's hard
to get a conversation going.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mondo Generator,
 
Human totalitarians WERE "freaks" in most communities before the Kurgan
invasions.
Since these invasions peaked between roughly 5 and 6 thousand years ago it is
easy to see why most moderns would not know that the Kurgans' political
successors official versions of "history" are still creating highly inaccurate
accounts.
 
The first organized urban communities did not wait for the first pharoahs of
Egypt or
the first tyrants in ancient Greece or for slave traffic anywhere in the world
or for the ancient armies that ancient slave catchers followed to their kind of
"victory." No:
They left definitive proof that they did survive. For more than four thousand
years.
Before their physical destruction by invaders who left (probably unwitting)
evidence.
 
Marija Gimbutas wrote the "Goddess" books.
Their titles refer to ancient,widespread religion in places that are still
recognizably
civilized as soon as scholars reconstruct what is left of them.
 
Riane Eisler drew upon this material to write "The Chalice and the Blade."
 
More has been found since she did so:
Which goes to show that:
 
We WERE probably as "good" as Gelfling...For a VERY long time...But...
 
 We got the equivalent of the Emperor skekSo,his Garthim armies,and skekOk's
highly "edited" versions of "objective historical scholarship" for more than
FIVE
thousand years...and over a far greater area...Than the Crystal Country in Thra.
 
We look worse than Gelfling? -Of course we do.
Had their history been as awful as our own they'd look terrible too. 
Just picture FIVE THOUSAND YEARS of Jolenite "justification"!!!
 
It would blow your mind.
-And theirs.
 
Then picture happy human beings whose only serious oppressors were a single
group of Skeksis who have been deported...Leaving ALL humans at lifelong
liberty.
 
Had our roles been reversed we would be going great.

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...> wrote:

From: theem_from <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: [CrystalCorner] Gelfings, Podlings, Aughra and what they
already know about their world
To: CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 9:47 PM
 
--- In CrystalCorner@ yahoogroups. com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Humans have been hampered by tyrannical monkeyings with "truth."
> Among many other things such garbage maintained the
> flat-earth theory for much longer than it would have ever survived > without a
LOT of selective repression.

Yes, totalitarian systems are not known for innovation and discovery precisely
because they intentionally eliminate the smartest members of their society and
it's not like these societies really encourage debate and free discussion
anyways so the gifts of bright people who would have otherwise figured these
things out are very often squandered.. Unfortunately monarchies and
dictatorships and theocracies seem to make up most of our history.. Come to
think of it though even now of days intelligence isn't very well respected and
even though bright people are not outright executed as they would have been
during say the Soviet Union, I do notice that there is this trend now to
demonize intellectuals. It starts in school anyone who is smart is immediately
ridiculed as a geek, a nerd or a grind. Intelligence is often seen as an asset
as opposed to a liability. So then this difference in our societies allows
Gelfling to make these discoveries sooner.
 
> I don't believe that Gelfling are really born smarter
> than we are...

No but if I had to make a guess I'd say that their adrenaline glands are
probably smaller then ours and their frontal lobes bigger. If this is true then
it would explain a lot. Also to that's before you even get into the obious
advantages of dreamfasting which would not only enhance their relationships as
Kira has often told me about but would also allow ideas and innovation to spread
faster.

> But save for a few freaks...(like Jolen diDellin)
> they do NOT permit "diSkeksis" garbage to "make" them
> limit their own minds...or to "make" them limit others'
> minds either.

Yup a Gelfling totalitarian really is a 'freak' in Gelfling society.. Not so
much with our species unfortunately.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, "theem_from" <Mondo_Generator_44@...>
wrote:

> > But save for a few freaks...(like Jolen diDellin)
> > they do NOT permit "diSkeksis" garbage to "make" them
> > limit their own minds...or to "make" them limit others'
> > minds either.
>
> Yup a Gelfling totalitarian really is a 'freak'
> in Gelfling society..  Not so much with our species unfortunately.
>

A thought just came to me with regards to totalitarianism and probably one of
the most notorious depictions of it Orwell's classic 1984..  In 1984 Big Brother
convicted people of thought crime and of course they couldn't actually read
peoples minds however a Gelfling totalitarian system truely would be able to
convict someone of thought crime given they have the ability to dreamfast.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
> Or are prepared to get one going...
> And/or to KEEP one going:
>  
> Active contributors do both.
>  
> I believe you can do it.
> And I hope you do...Because...
>  
> We need good contributors.

Well I've had lengthy discussions with Kira and also you Louise..  Unfortunately
there doesn't seem to be enough traffic to this website these days so it's hard
to get a conversation going.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
> Humans have been hampered by tyrannical monkeyings with "truth."
> Among many other things such garbage maintained the
> flat-earth theory for much longer than it would have ever survived > without a
LOT of selective repression.

Yes, totalitarian systems are not known for innovation and discovery precisely
because they intentionally eliminate the smartest members of their society and
it's not like these societies really encourage debate and free discussion
anyways so the gifts of bright people who would have otherwise figured these
things out are very often squandered..  Unfortunately monarchies and
dictatorships and theocracies seem to make up most of our history..  Come to
think of it though even now of days intelligence isn't very well respected and
even though bright people are not outright executed as they would have been
during say the Soviet Union, I do notice that there is this trend now to
demonize intellectuals.  It starts in school anyone who is smart is immediately
ridiculed as a geek, a nerd or a grind.  Intelligence is often seen as an asset
as opposed to a liability.  So then this difference in our societies allows
Gelfling to make these discoveries sooner.
 
> I don't believe that Gelfling are really born smarter
> than we are...

No but if I had to make a guess I'd say that their adrenaline glands are
probably smaller then ours and their frontal lobes bigger.  If this is true then
it would explain a lot.  Also to that's before you even get into the obious
advantages of dreamfasting which would not only enhance their relationships as
Kira has often told me about but would also allow ideas and innovation to spread
faster.

> But save for a few freaks...(like Jolen diDellin)
> they do NOT permit "diSkeksis" garbage to "make" them
> limit their own minds...or to "make" them limit others'
> minds either.

Yup a Gelfling totalitarian really is a 'freak' in Gelfling society..  Not so
much with our species unfortunately.

--- In CrystalCorner@yahoogroups.com, louise rothstein <crystalfan2912@...>
wrote:
>
> Now really.
> Although skekArlak is my creation he is not precisely myself.
> I would not actually assasinate Jen...or cripple Kira...

Well obviously I wasn't being serious..  I'm not infavor of Jen getting murdered
and Kira crippled either.  I just have a very dark sense of humor in case you
haven't noticed.

> Who did write the lyrics to skekArlak's favorite CD..?
> They were sung (or roared out!!!) for a very long time...
> -Without being written down.

I was gonna say because I was thinking of eventually setting them to actual
music if they did exist.

> They do concede that:
> These lyrics are public property now.
>  
> Anyone can create a new version...
>  
> And does.
>  
> New fanfilk,anybody...?

Maybe if I get bored enough and some words for these songs pops into my head I
will record it..  Melody lines come to me very easily I have tonnes of them
sitting on the shelf it's just lyrics I can't write lyrics to save my life.